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09-20-2006, 08:43 PM
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#46 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mineral wells texas
Posts: 42
|  Old S F C Angelford
S F C Angelford was my old friend in the Army , told me when we they were just talking about the 9 mm as a replacement to the 1911 A1 he jokenly said the biggest diff between 9 mm and the ole 1911 was with 9 mm shoot at a truck , you had to hit the driver in the head , with the 1911 you shot the truck 
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love the history and the debate | 
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09-21-2006, 01:30 AM
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#47 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country:  | Quote: |
More rounds pr clip, thats pretty much it.
| sounds like the Americans
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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09-21-2006, 03:44 AM
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#48 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,856
Country:  | Sometimes that can be a good thing Lanc.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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09-21-2006, 06:27 AM
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#49 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Stafford Springs, Connecticut
Posts: 413
Country:  | What about the Heckler and Koch VP70, it has an 18 round clip instead of the 15 round clip the Beretta offers. | |
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09-21-2006, 07:42 AM
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#50 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,195
Country: | With a heavy and long trigger pull, it does not help to improve accuracy.... And its also a 9mm.....
As this thread is titled, for Special Operations, the need for stopping power is paramount, and the 9mm round does not hack it...
If we need to continue this, lets revolve around the heavier cartridges, such as the .40 cal, which is the most ideally suited for the scope of this discussion....
As I said at the beginning of this thread, the Heckler and Koch Mark 23 .40 S&W,  which is currently the weapon of choice for USSOCOM Operators, is the sidearm to beat... 
__________________  "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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09-21-2006, 08:26 AM
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#51 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,785
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Originally Posted by lesofprimus Soren, said situation happened in Somolia...
And as far as the "What if" situation, I would use what I always used for CQC, a stumped sawed off Mossberg with 00 shot... Saved my life several times... | Agreed completely, nothing beats a shotgun up-close...
But as to which is the best Spec Ops pistol, well overall you're probably right Les, today it is the .40cal HK Mk.23, but in some key area's I know my P210 will still beat the crap out of it though. 
__________________  We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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09-21-2006, 08:31 AM
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#52 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,856
Country: | Id with the same as well. HK makes some damn good guns. I have a friend that was supposed to start working for HK. Not sure if he did though or not.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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09-21-2006, 09:19 AM
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#53 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,785
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__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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09-21-2006, 11:51 AM
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#54 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,494
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by lesofprimus
As I said at the beginning of this thread, the Heckler and Koch Mark 23 .40 S&W, which is currently the weapon of choice for USSOCOM Operators, is the sidearm to beat... | Mark 23? Too big. If I were relegated to HK, I'd rather have the USP. If you must have threaded barrel, and for SOF its a must, than the USP tactical. You can't go wrong with HK. But you will pay for that quality.
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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
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Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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09-21-2006, 12:03 PM
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#55 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,494
Country: | Soren, the P210 IS a nice gun. However, talk about price is no object! That gem is way over $1000 bucks here in US. Wish I had one! But, 9mm and 8rds on this frame is old technology. As much as I adore Sig Sauer, its based on the French 1935...and I hate giving the French credit for anything positive. Glock 22 is .40 and holds 17+1 with 2rd mag extension. Still my running favorite.
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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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09-21-2006, 01:00 PM
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#56 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: In WW2 Land, CODUO, SWON
Posts: 705
Country: | Quote: |
and I hate giving the French credit for anything positive.
| Amen to that!! Anyway, anyone know of the Baby Eagle's ability as a sidearm or just a fire arm in terms of kick, accuracy, etc.? I ask, because most of the people I asked bought a Baby and then a full-sized Desert Eagle, so I think their just a tiny bit biased. | |
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09-21-2006, 02:41 PM
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#57 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,494
Country: | Never fired one. However, if I recall correctly they are basically a CZ-75 clone (frame rails on the inside instead of the outside like Glock or 1911). As I noted above you can't go wrong with a CZ-75. You can get the Baby Eagle in 9mm, .40 or .45. The .40 is going to have more kick with the 180 grain bullets and the .45 with the 230 grain, but then again both are more powerful than 9mm. All reviews I have read were generally positive. If you don't shoot much, get the 9mm. .45 has some kick, but it is more like a push compared to the snap of the .40. Higher pressures for the .40. What you don't want is a gun that teaches you a bad flinching habit. Once you get one, its hard to teach yourself otherwise. Believe me I know firsthand.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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09-21-2006, 03:12 PM
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#58 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London
Posts: 2,829
| I am pretty sure I can speak for all those this side of the pond, who would love to be able to experience these and join the debate. | |
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09-21-2006, 03:33 PM
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#59 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,494
Country: | Glider. As an NRA member I do sympathize with you. Unfortunately, our time is coming I'm afraid. Too many liberal feminist healthcare for all save the whales tree hugging animal rights before human rights vegan atheists who want to tax the nation into prosperity with equal rights for equal work except for 9 months of maternity leave type folks. However, I'm doing my share to support 2nd amendment rights. You can do your part by rebutting anti-gun comments in the paper, in magazines, and other venues. Perhaps things will turn in the other direction. The pro rights folks don't argue based on emotions and thus we tend to become the silent majority.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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09-21-2006, 03:40 PM
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#60 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,785
| Quote: |
Soren, the P210 IS a nice gun. However, talk about price is no object! That gem is way over $1000 bucks here in US. Wish I had one!
| Wow, didn't know it was that expensive in the US, and to think both of mine were given to me  Quote: |
But, 9mm and 8rds on this frame is old technology. As much as I adore Sig Sauer, its based on the French 1935...and I hate giving the French credit for anything positive.
| Besides its safety feature, the fact that it holds only 8 rounds is the only minus you're going to find on that gun - its accuracy is unrivalled, and its high muzzle velocity gives it great penetrative performance and decent stopping power if expanding bullets are used. Consistently hitting a 2" target at 50m, no problem ! Quote: |
Glock 22 is .40 and holds 17+1 with 2rd mag extension. Still my running favorite.
| Sounds attractive but to be honest I never liked the Glock, have shot the Glock 17 myself, but I didn't like it at all. I'd much rather like the CZ-75 in .40 cal or the FN Browning HP then.
Now if you want a really good .40cal pistol I'd recommend the P226, that gun just shoots like a dream !
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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