Which theater of War Would you choose for flying?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Pretty much all "modern WW2" monoplane aircraft far outclassed any bi-plane. That is why pretty much every airforce adopted the supiorior mono plane and ditched bi-planes by 1941.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

exactily..........

[cheddar cheese]

I know, but im just saying that the performance stats of the Gladiator and the G.50 were pretty similar. I realise that the G.50 was a poor plane but I am saying the Italians utilised them very effectively. The Gladiator was one of the final biplanes so the biplane concept will be reaching its pinnacle and the design will be very advanced. However with the G.50 being one of the first monoplanes it will have many teething problems.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Not to put the Italians down or anything but they did not come up with very many good aircraft designs.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and bi-plane design wasn't that advanced.............

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

nope, the Gloster Gladiator may have been advanced for a bi-plane but it did not stand a chance against fighters like the Me-109, Fw-190 and so forth.

[cheddar cheese]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Not to put the Italians down or anything but they did not come up with very many good aircraft designs.

No they didnt. But they were good pilots. ALthough when they did make a good design, boy oh boy it was good. The the Reggiane Re-2005 for example. Its widely regarded as the best Italian single seat fighter, and some sources say the best fighter of the war. Going a little far there maybe, but undersatndable.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by cheddar cheese

No they didnt. But they were good pilots. ALthough when they did make a good design, boy oh boy it was good. The the Reggiane Re-2005 for example. Its widely regarded as the best Italian single seat fighter, and some sources say the best fighter of the war. Going a little far there maybe, but undersatndable.

You should tell your sources to stop smoking weed...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I will have to go against those that say it was the best fighter of the war. Though it was competitive with other designs such as the Spitfire, P-51, Me-109, and Fw-190 I still dont think it was better. I will not argue that fact thought that it might have been Italy's best design. I dont know eneough about it to argue that. It certainly was not a bad aircraft. The fact that it was powed by a Daimler Benz DB-605 may have helped it out though.

Engine One 1,475 hp Daimler-Benz DB 605A-1 V-12 inline liquid-cooled piston.
Dimensions: Span: 36 ft 1 in / 11 m.
Length: 28 ft 7 3/4 in / 8.73 m.
Height: 10 ft 4 in / 3.15 m.
Wing area: 219.58 sq ft / 20.4 m2.
Weights: Empty: 5,732 lb / 2,600 kg.
Maximum: 7,960 lb / 3,610 kg.
Max speed: 6,560 ft / 2,000 m: 421 mph / 678 kph
13,120 ft / 4,000 m: 351 mph / 565 kph
22,800 ft / 6,950 m: 421 mph / 678 kph
22,965 ft / 7,000 m: 421 mph / 678 kph
Cruise speed: 320 mph / 515 kph
climb rate: Time to 6,560 ft / 2,000 m: 1 min 55 sec
13,120 ft / 4,000 m: 4 min 28 sec
19,685 ft / 6,000 m: 5 min
Service ceiling: 37,730 ft / 11,500 m
Range: 609 miles / 980 km.
Crew one
Armament:
Two 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns with 350 rounds each in upper engine cowling.
One 20 mm Mauser MG 151 cannon with 150 rounds firing through propellor hub.
Two 20 mm Mauser MG 151 cannon with 200 rounds each in wings.
Up to 2,200 lb / 1,000 kg bomb or fuel tank under fuselage.
Two wing hardpoints for 353 lb / 160 kg of bombs or fuel tanks.

Here is a brief History of Re-2005:

it had exceptional flying charaterisics ,very powerful armament and exceptional handling.It was "the fighter" but it was limited by a slow production during the war, also due to the american bombing runs over the Reggiane factory.
However the Re 2005 could fight in the most difficult and important scenario of the Italian war ,giving evidence to its good qualities.To evaluate how the Re 2005 was considered from pilots who flew it , it can be used the sentence of General Vittorio Minguzzi :"all the series 5 fighters (Macchi 205,Fiat G55 and Re 2005) were competitive with the best aliies fighters, including Mustang and Spitfire IX,each one getting in evidence for a particular flight character.The Re 2005 in particular is the best in handling at high altitudes".
The Reggiane Re 2005 Sagittario was the ultimate refinement of a series of fighters which started with the Re 2000 Falco I and continued with the Re 2001 Ariete I and Re 2002 Ariete II.The 2005 was a turn round in the Reggiane airplanes,an occasion offered by the avaiability of the new engine Daimler-Benz DB-605 capable of producing 1475 HP.The Reggiane technical staff leaded by Ing.Alessio and Ing.Longhi devoted itself with much resolve to the realization of the new fighter and the result was of great excellence.The complete d machine had little in common with the other planes of the Reggiane fighter series.The wing structure and the empennages were retained ,while the fuselage,undercarriage,wing profiles and armament were completely new.The construction of the first prototype was started in October 1941 and completed at the end of 1942.After the first flights the prototype was sent to the Experimental Air Force Centre of Guidonia,where some modifications were requested and the Re 2005 proved to have better performance than the others series 5 fighters, with a top speed of 678 km\h at 2000 m.
The Air Force ordered 750 Reggiane, but only few were produced.A series was produced also for the Luftwaffe.
In May of 1943, the first Sagittarios entered service with the Regia Aeronautica. The first prototype and several of the zero series aircraft were used operationally by the 362a Squadriglia, 22o Gruppo at Naples-Capodichino starting in May 1943, being used to defend Rome and Naples. The squadron had developed a rather daring method of attacking Allied B-17s which involved diving head-on with all guns blazing, then flipping the aircraft over on its back and diving away at the last minute.The Reggiane had good behaviour in close dogfight and , according to General Minguzzi, who flew both Re 2005 and Spitfire, was even better than the Spit in tight turns and handling.The operative life of the Sagittario was concluded by the Armistice , that came in the September 1943.
Re 2005 was used also in R.S.I. (Italian fascist Social Republic-costituited in the north of italy after Allies invasion)with good result and by luftwaffe.About Luftwaffe's use of the Sagittario many say that it was used to defend Bucharest and Berlin; their fate thereafter being unknown.At least one Re 2005 was captured by the U.S., and the fuselage of one Re 2005 survives in the Museo Aeronautico Caproni di Taledo in Milano, been restored by GAVS.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

But again it was certainly not the best fighter of the war and even if they had produced more would not have made an impact for the axis. Especially not with Me-109G's and K's and Fw-190's.

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

But again it was certainly not the best fighter of the war and even if they had produced more would not have made an impact for the axis. Especially not with Me-109G's and K's and Fw-190's.

I don't know, the armament looks pretty good to me. I'm assuming it had a total of 3 x 20mm cannon, not 5 as the info presented above would imply?

Weak firepower was a real issue for the 109 later in the war. One 20mm and two relatively weak machine guns was weak armament by 1943. 109's carrying guns in pods were greatly diminished for anything but bomber attack.

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Lunatic

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yes but the Re-2005 was certainly not the best fighter the Axis built.

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Yes but the Re-2005 was certainly not the best fighter the Axis built.

Well, of course not. For all practical purposes, I think that honor has to go to the FW190 Dora9, as later models saw too small a production to be significant, and the air-cooled FW's lacked the necessary speed and high altitude performance, and the Bf109's were obsolete by 1943.

Another failing of the Nazi gangster mentality was that Messershmitt was in tighter with the Nazi's than Tank/FW, so even though in 1943 and 1944 the FW was clearly the superior fighter, Bf109's were ordered to the maximum capacity of the Messershmitt company to produce, and FW's were ordered to "fill the gap" between this number and what the RLM required. Had this been reversed, the German's would have done much better.

The FW's were not only better fighters than the 109's, they were also a better attack planes. If the Luftwaffe' could have traded 3 Bf109's for 2 FW190's it would have been better off for the trade.

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Lunatic

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Now I am not going to argue that later Fw-190s were better aircraft but I dont think you can say that that later Me-109s were obsolete. The G and K were just as good as there allied counterparts. To say that the G and the K were obsolete is saying that the later Spitfires were obsolete which they certainly were not.

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Now I am not going to argue that later Fw-190s were better aircraft but I dont think you can say that that later Me-109s were obsolete. The G and K were just as good as there allied counterparts. To say that the G and the K were obsolete is saying that the later Spitfires were obsolete which they certainly were not.

Well, I think it is clear these later 109's were inferior to their Allied opponents and to the FW's of the same period. By the 109G, the plane was no longer handling well. The 109K was a fast climber but it was inferior to the Allied planes in every other aspect. The 109 series peaked in the Bf109F-2 and after that it went downhill, the airframe was just too old and was being pushed far beyond its orginal design specs. It could not turn with allied fighters, it lacked firepower, had very poor endurance, and it was fragile.

Edit: oh and 109 high speed roll efficency was terrible, and stick forces for any manuvering at 300 IAS and above were extreme.

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Lunatic