Transports

[the lancaster kicks ass]

C47of course....

while the american airdropped their troops from C-47s, us brits prefered to use horsas...............

Also part of what made the landing so successfull was that the germans were so fixed on the idea that we were going to attack calais (one of the only 2 places both us and the germans knew we could land), that even when we did invade they thought at first that it was a diversion and were still expecting the main attack to come at calais. Don't forget though that we had huge diversions in the south east corner of the country, it's quite funny really, there was 7 men driving in a truck driving round the dover area that we creating the radio traffic for an entire army in the hope the germans would intercept this, which they did, and make them think that, along with allot of inflatable tanks, our army was in the south east, very clever i think. They also had the same scheme going on in the north with te radio traffic to make the germans think we were about to inade through Norway................

[cheddar cheese]

even after all these weeks ive known about that it still cracks me up

[the lancaster kicks ass]

can't say i blame you...............

[plan_D]

Well, it was simple and effective. Those poor Germans had no way of knowing otherwise, hahaha.

[MP-Willow]

True Plan_D, I was trying to say that if the tanks that could have moved earlier were to when most of the Shermans were still on the boats, then that would have made a differance. I was thinking about the order Hitler gave to lot let the tanks move untill he gave the order? Is that just a crazy story told or true?

Also were the germans bombing the fleets in the channel before D-day of Overlord?

[plan_D]

The Hitler order gave, not to move the tanks unless he authorised it is true. And Hitler was asleep at the time of the invasion, no one would dare wake him up.
The bulk of the German Panzers was in Calais, and were not moved straight away to Normandy because of this deception. Also, Hitler being asleep. Another thing is that a lot of Sherman Crabs made it ashore with the landing forces, or a mere few minutes behind except on Omaha (that's why it was so bad), the reason for that was the currents were too strong on the run to Omaha.

Not to sound too arrogant here but another thing was the 6th Airborne on the Day of the invasion destroyed several bridges, and held off many attacks on the bridges they were holding.
The American Airborne were to perform just as well in their villages and towns.

I don't recall any huge air strikes on the fleet in the channel, I imagine they were gearing up to throw the LuftWaffe over Calais, and plus teh Allies Air superiorty would have stopped it somewhat.

[Archer]

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

Don't forget though that we had huge diversions in the south east corner of the country, it's quite funny really, there was 7 men driving in a truck driving round the dover area that we creating the radio traffic for an entire army in the hope the germans would intercept this, which they did, and make them think that, along with allot of inflatable tanks, our army was in the south east, very clever i think. They also had the same scheme going on in the north with te radio traffic to make the germans think we were about to inade through Norway................

Yup, not sure if the Brits had a unit similar, but the US had a special unit dedicated to deception, the 23rd Headquarters Special Troops. IIRC Churchill liked the idea (and I think it was originally proposed for the Brits, but do to their position it would be hard) and pressured the Americans into it. They went to some famous art colleges/schools and recruited people. The unit had many specialist, ranging from fine arts artists that made camo so real it looked real (compared to the normal camo used) and also to make camo stand out, but not so much as to make it obvious they wanted the Germans to see it. There were also radio specialists that had to learn the accents, unit specific lingo, and everything else so they could take over a unit's (up to a division once IIRC) identity on the radio without a noticeable change to the Germans. There was a lot more they used, like inflatable tanks, planes, jeeps, and trucks. Convoys of their vehicles with only two people in the back, so it would seem they were full to anyone glancing in the back. If they thought someone was giving the Germans information (such as someone some of the officers were living or interacting with) they would feed them false information. They had halftracks with naval speakers on jacks on the backs to make noise at night, from tank movements, to infantry talking. Not only this, but they had to do it so it would sound right in the given atmospherics (they had their own meteoric unit IIRC to help with this). Halftracks drove around at night to make tread marks in the dirt, etc. I remember they operated on the peninsula to the west or Normandy, which I forget the name of, and bottled up a lot more Germans then they numbered, many of which were SS. They also operated in the crossing of the Rhine IIRC, during the Battle of the Bulge, and all along the front from the Atlantic to Italy.

Their halftracks had the most firepower of any as far as one member knew, for three people they had the mounted .50, a .30 machine gun, a bazooka, each had their own carbine, grenades, etc, more than three people would normally need. The vehicles all had explosives packed into them, so if they were damaged or couldn't get away from the Germans they could obliterate the vehicle and keep their secret.

They repainted their vehicle markings for the majority of their missions to maintain their identities, and on at least one occasion had an officer from the outfit they were pretending to be walk into the HQ thinking it was their outfit, and not recognize anyone. On occasion they also had neighbouring infantry units complain that they didn't give them armoured support, even though they saw it and heard armour at night and once (Battle of the Bulge maybe) were ordered to pull back since they didn't stand a chance against the Germans. For the rest of the war and beyond the unit that had been left on one of their flanks despised the unit they were pretending to be, which resulted in many accusations of cowardice and fights, although the one unit had no idea why

The book I read:
http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASI...268072-7297169

Another book I just read of:
http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASI...268072-7297169

[GermansRGeniuses]

there was also FUSAG (First U.S Army Group) which had Patton, a famous and high ranking general (as we all know, right?) ,in charge at first against his will. they did this because since patton was well known, the Germans would take FUSAG to be a regular division/battalion/whatever (i dont really know the order system for that) and after that, he (Patton) was replaced and put in charge of the Third Army(as it should be!)

[the lancaster kicks ass]

it was all very clever.................

[MP-Willow]

Thanks all. I have herd of the US units, and the Phy ops stuff with Patton, a great General! Also the Brits were in on all of it even before the Yanks I think. Blechly Park, just outside of London, was the center for the brits. But in the end the fake of the attack to Calise and the missinformation was a key to make Normandy work. The airborn was just amazing holding the positions and most all outnumbered and running low on everything.

Please remember that the Germans also had multible divisions in Italy being held up in that bruttle slow fighting. If Germany had not tried to deffend that ground it would have more troops in western France. That was the first time Itally has ever been taken from South to North.

[plan_D]

Bletchly Park was the HQ of ULTRA, the Engima code breakers.

[cheddar cheese]

Engima

oh, enigma (sorry, that was a bit of a cheap shot )

[GermansRGeniuses]

isnt it Bletchley park??? and wasnt the counter-propaganda (example: a flyer that was dropped containing information on how to sabotage guns, bombs, trucks, etc. in factories by the workers) team also based there?

[MP-Willow]

Thanks all. I just remember seing a TV special that I thought said the Bletchly Park was the hope to the British & Commonwelth Propaganda and Inteligents stuff.

[plan_D]

Two mistakes and I get a bashing, C.C I don't know how you have the cheek with the amount of mistakes you do. Yes, it is the enigma and it is Bletchley Park.