The ultimate warrior of all time

[Soren]

Udet,

I agree we shouldn't forget the Macedonian army, but this is about the ultimate warrior of all time, and AFAIK the Macedonian army, while generally consisting of experienced men, didn't feature any out of the ordinary unit.

Now about the Roman Legionairy army and it being the first true proffesional army in the history of man, I disagree with this as-well, there were others before it. But the thing about the Roman Legion is it brought warfare to a new level, both in terms of unit deployment on the battlefield and unit training & disciplin, it simply proved unbeatable for a very long period of time.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Flying an aircraft is no challenge but knowing what to do when the S*** hits the fan is the skill

Ha - just hop in a helo and skillfully fly it while on goggles... then we'll talk a little.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

How about the Rebels?

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Soundbreaker Welch?

How about the Rebels?

In this case, we could as well mention William Wallace and his Scottish militia...

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by mkloby

Ha - just hop in a helo and skillfully fly it while on goggles... then we'll talk a little.

I didn't say helicopter and I did think of that prior to posting

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

I didn't say helicopter and I did think of that prior to posting

Ok - I misunderstood when you aid "aircraft" to be including all types not just airplanes.

So does anybody know if the samurai ever engaged a foreign and much differently armed opponent?

[Soren]

Besides the mongols, not AFAIK.

[Udet]

Soren, hello!

I agree with you...i just wanted to add something to discussion since i noticed Spartans and Romans, warriors of the ancient world, were being mentioned though; that is why i thought the macedonian warriors under the rule of Argeads Phillip II and Alexander III deserved being included too.

The "Sarissa" made the Macedonian phalanx a true horror to the enemy hoplites.


It is a tough call anyway...to many types of great warriors, from different parts of the planet, different cultures and customs...

The Samurai could possibly be the very best; putting aside their individual combat skills, we must consider the mindset and cultural background of those warriors...never surrender, never stepping back, never, ever.

Also the Waffen-SS...possibly the very best warriors battlefields have seen in recent times; tough, superbly trained, amazing mobility and endurance...to this add the fact so many of these great soldiers who served their nation, spending days, weeks and months roaming across battlefields, who saw their brothers in arms getting killed, wounded and crippled, were forced in the best of the scenarios to lower their heads and be subjected to brutal spitting and defaming of all sorts.

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by Udet

Also the Waffen-SS...possibly the very best warriors battlefields have seen in recent times; tough, superbly trained, amazing mobility and endurance...

SS

Think the 101st Screaming Eagles at Bastogne would not rate the SS as high as you; neither do I. They were tough, well trained soldiers, but I would take the American GI over them. What a soldier fights for makes him a most formidable foe, the SS fought for a twisted ideology, the American soldier fought for freedom.

TO

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Udet

Soren, hello!

I agree with you...i just wanted to add something to discussion since i noticed Spartans and Romans, warriors of the ancient world, were being mentioned though; that is why i thought the macedonian warriors under the rule of Argeads Phillip II and Alexander III deserved being included too.

The "Sarissa" made the Macedonian phalanx a true horror to the enemy hoplites.


It is a tough call anyway...to many types of great warriors, from different parts of the planet, different cultures and customs...

The Samurai could possibly be the very best; putting aside their individual combat skills, we must consider the mindset and cultural background of those warriors...never surrender, never stepping back, never, ever.

Also the Waffen-SS...possibly the very best warriors battlefields have seen in recent times; tough, superbly trained, amazing mobility and endurance...to this add the fact so many of these great soldiers who served their nation, spending days, weeks and months roaming across battlefields, who saw their brothers in arms getting killed, wounded and crippled, were forced in the best of the scenarios to lower their heads and be subjected to brutal spitting and defaming of all sorts.

Agree all the points except the last - their fate in general was far better man for man than the soldiers and civilians that surrendered to them..

One of my uncles was a thompson carrying doctor that liberated Dachau as part of 5th Rangers.(think it was Dachau - in front of Patton on way to Czechoslovakia). He says in retrospect that they should have disarmed them, then closed the gates on them for a couple of hours and come back to clean up.

One of my other uncles was a 504PIR platoon commander who was hung up in a tree and set on fire by SS Troopers in Holland..

I respect them as skilled and non-discriminating murderers who also were skilled soldiers - but Warrior is too noble a name for SS (including Waffen).

I would say God was merciful in sparing the lives of any of them - hardly a proud tradition as warriors.

Udet - I gotta apologise about my emotional reaction to praise for the SS. My father and my Uncle were two of the kindest gentlemen post war that I have ever met.. but whenever that unit came into conversation in my presence the temperature of the room would drop 20 degrees... they never, never, never forgot and neither had any problem with German Wermacht or Luftwaffe.

[Udet]

Doctor, hello!

No need to apologize, at all. I understand you very very well. Both my father´s and mother´s families have or have had persons who fought in the war and i understand certain issues stir deep emotions. It is horrible to know one of your relatives perished at the hands of thugs during the war. Believe me.

You are simply confirming my ideas, the Waffen SS are unavoidably associated with evil regimes and lust for crime. That´s precisely where the tragedy of those soldiers lies.

They have no right to respect, they have no right to pride; in the end the fate of those soldiers was so much much better than they could have hoped for, since they were not all shot or hanged when the war ended. They should thank God for such favors.

I will not add more to this, since there are several persons here whose knowledge and records i admire and respect and will not want to make comments that might offend them. With this i mean you are one of those persons whose knowledge i do respect and can also learn from it.


Toughombre:

i will not debate further into the ideologies for which soldiers of the involved nations fought, even if there are so many things that could be argued on that specific part.

Following your logic then it would be more than reasonable to assume the Brits and Soviets can make fun on the combat capabilities and endurance of the S.S., since both also belong in the winning side. The ordinary Brit and Soviet soldier are then much better than their SS counterparts.

[mkloby]

First of all - if you think never surrender, never step back, ever is the supreme virtue of a warrior - you live in some alternate universe. If you mean retreat or withdraw by "never step back," then that is truly just foolish and detrimental tactically speaking.

Regarding the samurai - if they never dissimilar troops, how can anyone be so quick to tout their superiority???

[Udet]

Right...as a clarification i should perhaps have mentioned that was one quality of the Samurai that i admire; not that i was referring to that as the epitome of virtue or as tactically wise.

[Lucky13]

I think that most soldiers mentioned was the ultimate warriors of their time...

The British.....otherwise they wouldn't have had the empire that they once had. The same goes for the Romans, Greeks, Samurai.... etc. Even the Vikings who came to North America almost 500 years before Columbus. They left a lasting impression in the history which we still see today. Doesn't the name Normandy come from Norseman, which the Vikings also were known as, after they settled there? I think that I read that somewhere.

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by Udet

Following your logic then it would be more than reasonable to assume the Brits and Soviets can make fun on the combat capabilities and endurance of the S.S., since both also belong in the winning side. The ordinary Brit and Soviet soldier are then much better than their SS counterparts.

Think you might have misunderstood my post. I didn't say the American soldier was better than his SS counterpart because he was on the winning side. I'm saying that any warrior becomes more formidable when he believes in the cause he is fighting for. The example of American soldiers vs the SS in WW II is a stark comparison. In the American revolution the Continental Army and the civilian militia defeated a better trained and equipped British army and also defeated the Hessians who were mercenaries, fighting mostly for money.

Look what a handful of outnumbered Marines did at Wake Island. They were on the losing side but they kicked the Jap's ass in that fight.

TO