Who won Vietnam?!?

[abhiginimav]

just outa question, what aircraft do you fly FLYBOYJ

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by abhiginimav

just outa question, what aircraft do you fly FLYBOYJ

Mainly Cessna 172. I've flown almost all Cessna singles up to a Turbo 210 and some Piper. I also have time in several jets.

[abhiginimav]

do u fly the 172 commercially or just for leasure...and for the jets, did u need any qualifications like a university degree?

Thanks...jus need some career advice

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by abhiginimav

do u fly the 172 commercially or just for leasure...and for the jets, did u need any qualifications like a university degree?

Thanks...jus need some career advice

You don't need a college degree to fly. I don't know if in Britain they require a college degree in order to become a commissioned officer. However, the easiest way to get to fly, unless you were born w/ a silver spoon in your mouth, is to fly and let the gov't pay for it! However, don't do that just to fly - only fly for you country if your heart's in service to your country. The guys whose hearts aren't in service of their country and just want free flight training usually wash out of flight school.

I'm halfway to my naval aviator wings with the USMC. Granted, it's US - but I would think British training has similar opportunities.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by abhiginimav

do u fly the 172 commercially or just for leasure...and for the jets, did u need any qualifications like a university degree?

Thanks...jus need some career advice

My background is in aircraft maintenance - After many years of procrastinating I decided to get my PPL. After that i decided to become a flight instructor, something I do "part time.

The jet time was something I got to do because of my maintenance background - I traded maintenance services for flight time. It also helps when your father in law is a pilot too and knows some folks with privately owned jets.

Listen to mkloby - he hit the nail on the head!

[abhiginimav]

thanks guys...i shud be going solo this year in a 152...ill try and get into the RAF
thanks for the advice

[Glider]

In the UK you don't need to have a degree to become an officer, in the RN over a third of the officers started as other ranks but to fly as a pilot I believe that you do need to get a degree.

[lesofprimus]

One thing that bothered me about this thread:

Originally Posted by abhiginimav

i think the world police thing is getting to far, that goes for Britain and more economically developed european countries too. we should let countries sort it out between them. this is why were loosing men fighting for lost causes.

We should let countries just sort it out??? Like the way Iraq did with Kuwait??? Or the same way North Korea wants to with the South??? What about the way Rwanda and Cambodia handled their internal squabbles??? How many hundreds of thousands died cause the "World Police" decided to sit those ones out???

Maybe even, dare I say it, Milosivich and Saddam should have been left alone and do whatever they wanted to....

Ethnic fu*kin cleansing and genocide.....

Gimmie a break kid, the world does need help...

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

One thing that bothered me about this thread:
We should let countries just sort it out??? Like the way Iraq did with Kuwait??? Or the same way North Korea wants to with the South??? What about the way Rwanda and Cambodia handled their internal squabbles??? How many hundreds of thousands died cause the "World Police" decided to sit those ones out???

Maybe even, dare I say it, Milosivich and Saddam should have been left alone and do whatever they wanted to....

Ethnic fu*kin cleansing and genocide.....

Gimmie a break kid, the world does need help...

Well said Les.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by mkloby

On the 2nd part - things done in every war are going to be sickening. Not to diminish the reality of it, but I think that's one thing that will always remain constant in warfare. I'll find that out firsthand soon enough...

I still think about the things that I have seen. My buddy still jumps when a car backfires and on New Years he sat huddled in his house because the noises from the fire works scared him.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by abhiginimav

No offence to any americans, but i think the USA should just not have got involved, i think the world police thing is getting to far, that goes for Britain and more economically developed european countries too. we should let countries sort it out between them. this is why were loosing men fighting for lost causes. Vietnam was just a waste of time, money, military, vehicles and lives. thoose who came back, havent got a life, because it had been stolen from fear and horrible experiences.
Sorry to hear that you went to Nam' Erich
i jus hope if i ever join the RAF when im old enough, i wont see any thing like that.

I have to disagree with you. Let them sort it out themselves?

Have you seen mass graves? Have you seen them filled with bodies that were killed because they were Albanian, or Christian, or Muslim or Kurd, or Shiite? I have seen these mass graves first hand in Kosovo, Bosnia, and Iraq.

When do you tell them what is right and what is wrong, when do you stop the killing of innocent women and children?

Someone has to and the rest of the world is too damn chicken **** to do it.

[Crow]

I dont know about chicken, many nations like Australia are too small to offer anything other than token assistance. And its a bit disingenuous to suggest that the US is somehow solely interested in bringing freedom, all countries act according to their own interests and I have seen many graves of innocents who have been on the deliberate recieving end of the US`s efforts as well. There isnt a country on the map that cant happily justify why a particular slaughter is not there problem when its not in their interests to act.

But as critical as I am of some of the US`s actions that doesnt mean for a second if there has to be a single 'superpower' I would rather it was another power like a China or Russia. I think too many people who have legitimate grievances with your current administration go too far into the 'US is always wrong' mode, which then does almost justify to themselves genocides in preference to the US taking unilateral action.

As much as I know many Americans distrust the UN, perhaps we need to reframe it, as too many members are happy to see it toothless so that it doesnt interfere with their interests. remove the veto and make it a proper democratic institution, not one which reflects the power nations of 1945. The massacre at srebrenica happened because no country would give the UN troops there any mandate to do anything other than watch the slaughter.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Crow

I dont know about chicken, many nations like Australia are too small to offer anything other than token assistance.

That is not what I meant by my post. What I meant was this. The US (and her allies) goes in and the world cries "Bad US, War Mongering fools!" Well the rest of the world can kiss my ass...

Originally Posted by Crow

And its a bit disingenuous to suggest that the US is somehow solely interested in bringing freedom, all countries act according to their own interests

Your right, we want to secure our freedom from those that wish to take it and hurt us because of our freedoms.

Originally Posted by Crow

and I have seen many graves of innocents who have been on the deliberate recieving end of the US`s efforts as well.

Please tell me where you have seen such a mass grave filled with innocent bodies killed by US soldiers. I was a US Soldier and served in combat and I guarantee you we have never caused mass genocide or killed innocents in mass ammounts just for the fricken hell of it.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

That is not what I meant by my post. What I meant was this. The US (and her allies) goes in and the world cries "Bad US, War Mongering fools!" Well the rest of the world can kiss my ass...

I already said that many of those who have legitimate grievances with US foreign policy can go too far with criticising for unilateral action and end up justifying genocides rather than let the US act.

as for the world can kiss your ass, well thats really symptomatic of the contempt the US has shown for the rest of the world, including its allies. if you are happy enough for the US to act solely in its own interests then you really have nothing to complain about when other countries do the same and try to negate your influence.

Your right, we want to secure our freedom from those that wish to take it and hurt us because of our freedoms.

right. what is so special about your freedoms?. There are dozens of countries that have every bit of the liberal secular democracy of the US. pretending everyone hates you just because of freedoms is just simplistic and allows you to not have to face up to the effects of your foregin policy. 'no they dont hate us because of our undermining of elected Governments that would damage our interests, its because we get public holidays and the vote'. did countries such as Guatemala wanted to hurt your 'freedoms'? or were they taught a lesson because a US corporation with strong ties to Eisenhower objected when its assets were nationalised for the good of its people?. plenty more examples if you care to look.

Please tell me where you have seen such a mass grave filled with innocent bodies killed by US soldiers. I was a US Soldier and served in combat and I guarantee you we have never caused mass genocide or killed innocents in mass ammounts just for the fricken hell of it.

I didnt say genocide, but believe me, I could take you on a tour of villages in vietnam where I have seen the results of US troops actions. I was a soldier too, and I`ve seen it first hand on the ground. families raped and murdered, babies smashed in, 12yo girls raped and then have flares shoved up their vaginas and lit.., boys killed one by one with a bullet in the head because a village wouldnt hand over a supposed VC member etc. I`ve seen it all.

I didnt mean for this to turn into an attack on the US, believe me as I said earlier if there has to be a single superpower then I`m glad its the US. God knows what would happen if we got what some anti-US types want and the US was replaced by China or Russia. But some of the reasons given for the US acting as it does are naive and simplistic in the extreme, and reasons like 'they hate our freedom' really just gives your country a licence to do whatever it wants rather than weigh up the real effects of your policy.

flame away

[Erich]

no flame but maybe a reality check for you, the south Viets also followed up the US to perform it's mindless acts of barbarity on it's own people and cousins, the messages you proclaim are true enough, I was there. they were supplied with the same arms and ammo which you easily see whom would get the blame .....