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01-17-2007, 08:46 AM
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#76 | | Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada
Posts: 98
Country:  | My opinion, and (mind you I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination)
north vietnam didn't so much as win as the Americans beat themselves. | 
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01-17-2007, 09:06 AM
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#77 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,609
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernhart  My opinion, and (mind you I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination)
north vietnam didn't so much as win as the Americans beat themselves. | Bingo!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
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01-17-2007, 09:39 AM
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#78 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,199
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernhart My opinion, and (mind you I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination)
north vietnam didn't so much as win as the Americans beat themselves. |
But the other side of that is that the perception by most people (non-military types) including enemys of the States, is that NVA won that war.
That gives them hope, gives them faith that they to can beat the "evil USA", they just have to use the right tatics. Now you have ever little nut job country with its beef vs USA standing up to them.
When you are the toughest guy on the block you don't even have to throw a punch to win 99% of fights, you scare them. Now every punkazz country and dictator stands up to the USA and says FU USA....what are you going to do about it? Now USA does have the get tough in every fight (or at least alot more than ever before) before anyone listens to her. Like I always say when you are in a fight and punchs are thrown rarely does either side come out of it not being hurt.
Thats where we are now. No one fears the USA like they used to. Now everyone thinks that can take on the USA and win.
Whats does that cost USA..........American dollars and soldiers.
And if you are the President of the USA it costs you your job.
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In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
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01-17-2007, 09:58 AM
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#79 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,803
Country:  | Politics is what lost Vietnam...
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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01-17-2007, 10:31 AM
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#80 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,199
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Politics is what lost Vietnam... | Oh I agree. But perception is reality. Most people see USA having lost to the NVA, that inspires them to also stand up to the USA. USA is still feeling the effects of that war today b/c now every third world dictator stands up to them.
Whether you want to argue that USA lost the war or not (and why) the fact remains that she as good as lost the war. USA lost face there, USA lost respect, USA to many lost a war, USA lost her invincibility, US public lost some will to fight.
It does not matter how USA lost the war she still lost it in the minds of many people.
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In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
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01-17-2007, 10:36 AM
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#81 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,609
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Politics is what lost Vietnam... | Another bingo....
As my brother put it - the US fought the Vietnam War like we had both hands tied behind out backs - the few times our forces were allowed to unleash the NVA suffered greatly. US forces fought very well in Vietnam. It was Johnson and McNamara that screwed everything up.
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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01-17-2007, 11:30 AM
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#82 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,803
Country: | The same can be said for the Iraq war now.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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01-17-2007, 12:50 PM
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#83 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,199
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet The same can be said for the Iraq war now. | Yup. The blueprint has been written how to beat the USA (perhaps even Israel after their last war they did not look so good) and it is being passed around to every third world dictator or terror group.
Now the ball is in USA's ball court........USA has to do something new to stop this line of thought or else its going to get a hell of a lot worse before it ever gets better. No one fears USA now.
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In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
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02-06-2007, 05:11 PM
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#84 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 375
Country:  | 'war is a continuation of politics by other means' [ Clausewitz]
Allthough this is a well worn phrase. I feel its still valid today.
Britain and the US have been guilty on numerous ocasions of seperating these intrinsically linked agendas from WWII onwards. Maybe if the US didn't stop bombing during peace talks the result would have been different? | |
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02-15-2007, 05:00 AM
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#85 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,051
Country: | The only winning party in the Vietnam war is the media.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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02-15-2007, 10:35 AM
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#86 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,755
Country: | I'll agree with your statement plan_
as what happened in my time is now happening in "your" time - media is in total control of what you hear and what you see
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shhhh ........ es ist ein Geheimnis | |
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07-14-2007, 05:15 AM
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#87 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2
Country:  | north vietnamese ofcourse | |
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07-14-2007, 05:48 AM
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#88 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,609
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by vijaykumar north vietnamese ofcourse | And I'll repeat... 
Militarily the US beat the crap out of the NVA - Politically the whole campaign was a failure, plain and simple...
The NVA launched 2 major campaigns against South Vietnam and the American forces serving there. The US fought like it had one arm tied behind it's back and still easily defeated both offensives.
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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07-14-2007, 09:02 AM
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#89 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,803
Country: | Oh and I just want to throw in something.... YOU can only have 1 login!!!!! 
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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07-14-2007, 09:03 AM
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#90 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 7,921
| Just something to ponder....
The Russians and Chinese were so preoccupied with the war in Indochina, that they never gave full attention to the other communist insurrections in Thailand, Malaysia, Burma and Indonesia.
They lost in all of those countries by the end of the sixties.
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