WW2 Allied Leadership - Aircraft of World War II

michaelmaltby · 07-10-2009, 04:42 PM

Recent threads have provoked strong feelings about which ally made the greatest contribution in WW2. While fighting strength and industrial output were critical, leadership was also vital. Who is the greatest WW2 military and non political leader for the Allied Cause?

Political Leaders:
Churchill
Roosevelt
Stalin
Tito
Truman

Military Leaders:
Zhukov
Montgomery
Marshall
Eisenhower
Bradley
Patton
MacArthur
Harris
LeMay
Halsey
Chuikov

Wondering members thoughts on this.

MM

diddyriddick · 07-10-2009, 05:54 PM

In my view, Eisenhower gets the nod. Anybody that could subordinate(mostly)those massive egos of his subordinates deserves my vote.

lingo · 07-10-2009, 06:12 PM

I would like to see Freeman and Dowding on the list. The latter was a star throughout the Battle of Britain but was burnt out afterwards. Freeman starred throughout the 39 -45 war, and was friendly with Arnold. He was able to advise Arnold when the US wanted light and medium bombers that they really needed heavy bombers - and many of them.

timshatz · 07-10-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diddyriddick

In my view, Eisenhower gets the nod. Anybody that could subordinate(mostly)those massive egos of his subordinates deserves my vote.

Great point. Understood power and used it very wisely. Plan to defeat the Nazis was good. Went to a stregth of the Allies they could not hope to match.

timshatz · 07-10-2009, 06:18 PM

Would add Spruance and Nimitz in there as well. Also Slim.

Don't think Halsey was better than Spruance. Definitely not better than Nimitz.

Slim has my vote over Harris and Montgomery.

Amsel · 07-10-2009, 06:30 PM

Churchill had heart, a great wartime leader.

Eisenhower had the perfect temperment for a General. Patton was definantly Eisenhower's best General. Bradley and Monty were just too cautious and slow too act. I really don't know how Monty kept his job. I am also not a big fan of MacArthur. Nimitz was better.

Waynos · 07-10-2009, 06:48 PM

You would probably want Churchill running your country but Eisenhower running your military to bring about victory, but not the other way round

michaelmaltby · 07-10-2009, 07:09 PM

Some thoughts .. George Marshall picked Ike .... and his Plan kept the war in Western Europe won. I agree there are major omissions in my quick list. Dowding being one I shouldn't have missed. Was FDR a strong leader (1939 - 1945] ... or did he just have good delegates?

MM

parsifal · 07-10-2009, 07:14 PM

I am surprised that the great US adminstrators are not on the list.......Nimitz, and Marshal in particular. These men were the architects of the US victory.

For the British I would like to see Mountbatten and Slim for their efforts in India and Burma, and Cunningham for his efforts in the Med. O'Connor would have done great things if he not been captured.

In the Pacific, the great US leader was Macarthur. The man has his faults, but he was able to forge together a wartime alliance with the Australians that persists to this day. In a sense it is the most enduring legacy of the war....the forging of the alliances that preserved the western way of life

Amsel · 07-10-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waynos

You would probably want Churchill running your country but Eisenhower running your military to bring about victory, but not the other way round

Right!

renrich · 07-10-2009, 07:26 PM

Without Churchill, Britain might have folded. Eisenhower did a good job as an administrator. Nimitz did likewise in the PTO. Halsey was overhyped, IMO, Spruance was much better. Slim was probably the best British general, but his efforts were not appreciated by Churchill. The politics behind the scenes regarding the Allies were incredible.

vikingBerserker · 07-10-2009, 08:36 PM

For political leadership, I think FDR did a great job, but it was Churchill who had to keep a country on the front lines facing a possible invasion motivated. Some of his speaches still send shivers up my spine.

Military: I have to go with Patton.

drgondog · 07-10-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amsel

Churchill had heart, a great wartime leader.

Eisenhower had the perfect temperment for a General. Patton was definantly Eisenhower's best General. Bradley and Monty were just too cautious and slow too act. I really don't know how Monty kept his job. I am also not a big fan of MacArthur. Nimitz was better.

The best strategic thinker for US probably Was MacArthur, however. He maximized ground taken while minimizing casualties with his three dimensional grasp of the battlefield.

drgondog · 07-10-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsifal

I am surprised that the great US adminstrators are not on the list.......Nimitz, and Marshal in particular. These men were the architects of the US victory.

Agreed and Hap Arnold fits there also.

For the British I would like to see Mountbatten and Slim for their efforts in India and Burma, and Cunningham for his efforts in the Med. O'Connor would have done great things if he not been captured.

In the Pacific, the great US leader was Macarthur. The man has his faults, but he was able to forge together a wartime alliance with the Australians that persists to this day. In a sense it is the most enduring legacy of the war....the forging of the alliances that preserved the western way of life

We see eye to eye - and MacArthur forged a lasting Democracy in Japan. I was there as a young child in 1948-1951. The Japanese revered him.

Patton was our best Corps/Army Battle Commander/ LeMay was our greatest Airman with huge contributions in ETO and PTO and Halsey gets my vote for Best Squid in the field.

I rank Churchill as one of the greatest leaders of all time...

michaelmaltby · 07-10-2009, 10:48 PM

Marshall is on the list, Parsifal. As I mentioned, he picked Ike for Supreme Command - and put Europe back together quick enough to check Stalin.
To me, by WW2 FDR's strength came from his delegates. I have enormous admiration for Zhukov - from the Japanese in May-Sept '39 to Berlin '45. He was a master of logistics as well as strategy.

What impresses me most about MacArthur is the re-build of Japan. And likewise, great respect for Truman for plain spoken leadership both as VP and POTUS when the 2 Allied bombs were deployed.

But soldiers shape both the battle and the peace - and George Marshall as military leader and Churchill as political leader would be my choice.

MM

07-10-2009, 04:42 PM	#1
michaelmaltby Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 224	WW2 Allied Leadership Recent threads have provoked strong feelings about which ally made the greatest contribution in WW2. While fighting strength and industrial output were critical, leadership was also vital. Who is the greatest WW2 military and non political leader for the Allied Cause? Political Leaders: Churchill Roosevelt Stalin Tito Truman Military Leaders: Zhukov Montgomery Marshall Eisenhower Bradley Patton MacArthur Harris LeMay Halsey Chuikov Wondering members thoughts on this. MM

07-10-2009, 06:30 PM	#6
Amsel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,738	Churchill had heart, a great wartime leader. Eisenhower had the perfect temperment for a General. Patton was definantly Eisenhower's best General. Bradley and Monty were just too cautious and slow too act. I really don't know how Monty kept his job. I am also not a big fan of MacArthur. Nimitz was better. __________________ 'Live Free or Die'

07-10-2009, 06:48 PM	#7
Waynos Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 914	You would probably want Churchill running your country but Eisenhower running your military to bring about victory, but not the other way round __________________ BlondeValkyrie - Bugger off and host your OWN pictures you thieving twat

07-10-2009, 07:14 PM	#9
parsifal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,994	I am surprised that the great US adminstrators are not on the list.......Nimitz, and Marshal in particular. These men were the architects of the US victory. For the British I would like to see Mountbatten and Slim for their efforts in India and Burma, and Cunningham for his efforts in the Med. O'Connor would have done great things if he not been captured. In the Pacific, the great US leader was Macarthur. The man has his faults, but he was able to forge together a wartime alliance with the Australians that persists to this day. In a sense it is the most enduring legacy of the war....the forging of the alliances that preserved the western way of life __________________ Do not judge on abilities, but on choices

07-10-2009, 08:36 PM	#12
vikingBerserker Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,768	For political leadership, I think FDR did a great job, but it was Churchill who had to keep a country on the front lines facing a possible invasion motivated. Some of his speaches still send shivers up my spine. Military: I have to go with Patton. __________________ "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" "Those who dwell in the past, condemn the future"

07-10-2009, 05:54 PM	#2
diddyriddick Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Hamlet, NC, US Posts: 723	In my view, Eisenhower gets the nod. Anybody that could subordinate(mostly)those massive egos of his subordinates deserves my vote.

07-10-2009, 06:12 PM	#3
lingo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Penzance Cornwall UK Posts: 131	I would like to see Freeman and Dowding on the list. The latter was a star throughout the Battle of Britain but was burnt out afterwards. Freeman starred throughout the 39 -45 war, and was friendly with Arnold. He was able to advise Arnold when the US wanted light and medium bombers that they really needed heavy bombers - and many of them.

07-10-2009, 06:18 PM	#5
timshatz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa Posts: 3,446	Would add Spruance and Nimitz in there as well. Also Slim. Don't think Halsey was better than Spruance. Definitely not better than Nimitz. Slim has my vote over Harris and Montgomery.

07-10-2009, 07:09 PM	#8
michaelmaltby Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 224	Some thoughts .. George Marshall picked Ike .... and his Plan kept the war in Western Europe won. I agree there are major omissions in my quick list. Dowding being one I shouldn't have missed. Was FDR a strong leader (1939 - 1945] ... or did he just have good delegates? MM

07-10-2009, 07:26 PM	#11
renrich Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado Posts: 3,271	Without Churchill, Britain might have folded. Eisenhower did a good job as an administrator. Nimitz did likewise in the PTO. Halsey was overhyped, IMO, Spruance was much better. Slim was probably the best British general, but his efforts were not appreciated by Churchill. The politics behind the scenes regarding the Allies were incredible.

07-10-2009, 10:48 PM	#15
michaelmaltby Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 224	Marshall is on the list, Parsifal. As I mentioned, he picked Ike for Supreme Command - and put Europe back together quick enough to check Stalin. To me, by WW2 FDR's strength came from his delegates. I have enormous admiration for Zhukov - from the Japanese in May-Sept '39 to Berlin '45. He was a master of logistics as well as strategy. What impresses me most about MacArthur is the re-build of Japan. And likewise, great respect for Truman for plain spoken leadership both as VP and POTUS when the 2 Allied bombs were deployed. But soldiers shape both the battle and the peace - and George Marshall as military leader and Churchill as political leader would be my choice. MM

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