Your favorite Pacific battle / campaign to study?

[syscom3]

Renrich, one more thing I would like to clarify ....

Both forces were experienced.

But the IJN was still the more proficient in launching coordinated strikes in a minimum of time and hassle.


Therefore, the edge in this battle, goes to the IJN.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

That sounds like a cool book Syscom, I'll try to get it from the library.

[renrich]

Thanks, Sys, I am looking forward to getting my hands on the book. It would have been interesting to see how the war had gone if the silly, to me, Doolittle raid had not gone forward and Enterprise and Hornet had been available for Coral Sea and consequently the Hornet air group had had more battle experience. Lots of what ifs but enjoyable to speculate about.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by renrich

Thanks, Sys, I am looking forward to getting my hands on the book. It would have been interesting to see how the war had gone if the silly, to me, Doolittle raid had not gone forward and Enterprise and Hornet had been available for Coral Sea and consequently the Hornet air group had had more battle experience. Lots of what ifs but enjoyable to speculate about.

Things could have been different in the following ways:
- the IJN did not divide forces between the Aleutions and Midway, and had their two light carriers available for operations with the main fleet, or operating as an independant raiding force.

- The Yorktown was not available for the battle.

- The IJN command staff "war gamed" Midway in a truthfull manner and changed their plans accordingly.

- The Enterprise dive bombers missed the Soryu completely (read the book to see how lucky the USN was on that attack ..... just 30 meters inaccuracy and the battle changes)

In the end though, even if the Japanese won the sea battles, they would have still failed in the land battle (or been so severly mauled, they were crippled for quite some time).

[renrich]

Also, if Hornet and Enterprise had been at Coral Sea, Lexington may not have been lost and would have been available at Midway.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by renrich

Also, if Hornet and Enterprise had been at Coral Sea, Lexington may not have been lost and would have been available at Midway.

And Saratoga being the unluckiest carrier in the fleet.

[renrich]

Amazing how unlucky the Sara was and her air group was not all that functional either. It seems like the Lex and the Sara were exact opposites.

[davparlr]

While I recognize the importance of Midway, to me the most interesting, and I think generally underappreciated is the Guadalcanal campaign. It has everything.

Invasion/counter invasion

Unsupplied troops vs unsupplied troops

Night time sea battles with piercing search lights watched from shore

Destroyer vs Destroyer/Destroyers lost

Cruiser vs Crusier/Crusiers lost

Battleship vs Battleship/Battleships lost

Mixes of the above

Carrier vs Carrier/Carriers lost

Point blank battleship duels, point blank cruiser duels

Submarine attacks/ships sunk

Sub/ship/aircraft Torpedoes all over the place/ships sunk

Undermanned Army, Navy, and Marine pilots heroically fighting in outclassed aircraft against airborne and seaborne enemy

Jappanese pilots flying 1100 mile missions (longest of the war?)

Jungle fighting/machine guns/bayonets

Jungle battles fought, won and lost by both sides

Land raids/successful and unsuccessful

Banzai attacks

Massacres of ship borne troops

Disease/Starvation

Probably the only Pacific battle where both sides were roughly equal, Guadalcanal is the very definition an all aspect battle.

An island called Guadalcanal was the apex of the Japanese Empire and beheld a battle like never seen before or since, fought by brave men on both sides, on the sea, in the air, and on the land. The Jappanese tidal wave of expansion broke mightily against a jungle covered ridge with a handful of marines on top, and, ebbed back in a bloody tide to he shore of Japan itself.

American allies played a major role and I don't want to omit their effort and loses in this horrific battle.

[syscom3]

I think the most underappreciated campaigns in that part of the world, was the New Georgia campaign in summer 1943, and the 2 year struggle for new Guinie.

[renrich]

Dav, you make a good argument for the Guadalcanal Campaign and it does have a lot going for it.

[syscom3]

Renrich, upon further review of your comments (and I went back to my source book) about the quality of the IJN naval air forces vs. the USN naval air forces; I now come to accept your arguments that they (the IJN) were the better of the two.

[renrich]

Sys, I want to be clear about my earlier comments. I am an unabashed fan of the USN pilots in WW2. I have been a avid fan of the USN in general since my two uncles who had, at that time, come from the PTO directly from USS Salt Lake City and USS Chicago, (both were CGMs) and had been on those ships when PH occurred. They came to our house in Dallas sometime, I think, in 1943, and stayed with us for at least a week. All I really remember was that they went out one night together and did not return for several days. Dallas was a target rich environment and neither were married. I did get the impression that these old sea dogs had seen a lot of action. That was confirmed later, after the war. Most of my "knowledge" about USN pilots is from reading Lundstrom's two books about USN fighter pilots in the 1941-42 period and a little bit of personal interaction with Jim Swope, a WW2 USN double ace. Anyway, I believe that at the time of Midway, the IJN pilots in that battle had an overall edge in experience and training over their counterparts from the Hornet, Enterprise and Yorktown. Later, that would not be true.

[syscom3]

Thanks Renrich.

I based my comment on the fact that on the attack on the Yorktown, the IJN dive bomber pilots had an impressive hit rate of approx 50%.

The US had far lower hit rates on the IJN carriers.