THE AVRO CF-105 ARROW - WAS IT REALLY THAT GOOD?!?

[FLYBOYJ]

I thought the TSR-2 was originally developed as a low-level tactical nuclear strike bomber? I didn't know they (the UK) had ever planned on developing it as an interceptor; that's what the Lightning was for.

You are correct and I stand corrected

[FLYBOYJ]

.
Maneuverability against an F-4?
Stupid statement.

Not at all - the Arrow had the visibility of a brick wall and needed miles to do a 180.

.
We never had an Arrow vs. Phantom duel.
Plus, like the Arrow, the Phantom was not originally fitted with a gun.
So want to discuss missile vs. missile ?
Or do you wish to discuss what could have been retrofitted?
Is the Arrow outdated?
Probably.
Was it capable of "holding its own" nowadays?
I believe so.
Is there better today?
A few.

The Arrow was a speculative conglomerations of "What ifs." It was never given the chance to mature in scenarios as I presented, but having flown in F-4s and reading about the Arrow, "would of and could of," even in the "Rhino Brick" its turn radius with the Arrow was comparing a bus to a sports car. The Arrow "would of" made a great interceptor if all the bugs "would of" been worked out of it and all the systems performed as advertised...

.
As far as "one real function".
Wrong.
That is what the "interchangable weapons pack" was for.
And the sad thing was, I resurrected this thread just to show a bit of computer generated flight models and asked if a guy wanted to try it.
Regards,
NITE

Would of, could of should of - the first prototypes were over budget and some of the systems weren't functioning properly in the early stages - "Would of" the bugs been worked out? Maybe....

The Arrow was a pretty advanced airplane but we just didn't have the where withal to carry it out . i disagree that it ruined our industry we just changed focus . The DHC aircraft being an example and Canadair , Bombardier , CAE , Spar PWC and Bristol let us play with the big boys in aerospace as we are 4th or 5th worlds largest aviation nation.

Canada could of been #2 or better. Canadair? A bastion of government subsidies and continual bailouts, all the rest of the companies mentioned were/ are top notch....

[NITE]

Well Sir, I've flown in a Panavia Tornado.
Your statement of flying an outdated phantom does not impress me.
Would have, could have, should have.
Never met the guy so unverifyable source.
My sources.
Arrow
Shutting Down The National Dream
Arrow Through The Heart
Fall of an Arrow
Storms Of Controversy
Personal talk with Jim Floyd
Input from an aerospace engineer.
And all the publicly available data.
I could go on but I am done here
I shall not be back, and no, I wont let the door hit me on the way out.
Regards, over and out.
NITE

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And this is all irrelevent.

The Arrow is a "Would Have, Could Have, Should Have"....

"But never did...."

[FLYBOYJ]

Well Sir, I've flown in a Panavia Tornado.
Your statement of flying an outdated phantom does not impress me.

It's not meant to. The facts are the facts, the Arrow wasn't built and the technology of the day would of quickly overtaken it - hard to swallow if you let nationalist pride get in the way....

I shall not be back, and no, I wont let the door hit me on the way out.

Good - I hate it when sh!t splatters!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Jesus Christ!

People stop being so sensative. Just because some one disagree with you, dont run off like a little girl!

In other words:

[FLYBOYJ]

[pbfoot]

Canadair now belongs to Bombardier

[FLYBOYJ]

Canadair now belongs to Bombardier

I know - I was there when Bombardier bought Canadair. They immediately fired all the former Trudeau cronies who had jobs for doing nothing. When I was at Canadair they had a VP of F-104 programs - years after the aircraft was retired from the CAF!!!! They also got rid of the government subsidized lunches and the barber.

There were great people who worked at Canadair and who are probably still there. There was also a lot of waste as some of the management felt they had nothing to loose since the company was government owned and it showed as initially the Challenger was the single most money loosing aircraft program in aviation history - socialism at its best....

[ArrowZero]

If the Project arrow was not cancelled, the aviation in Canada would be the same?

[FLYBOYJ]

If the Project arrow was not cancelled, the aviation in Canada would be the same?

I don't think so - I think Canada would of had more influence in US policy during the cold war years as well as with the defence of North America, she would of retained many of its citizens who immigrated into the US in the early 1960s and might of been a much larger player in the commercial aircraft market. IMO the cancellation of the project was a forfeit of some of Canada's sovereignty. Peter Charles Newman eluded to this situation in his book "True north, not strong and free."

[ArrowZero]

The Avro Arrow was the best airplane of that time , if so, Canada would have been rich selling the airplane to the world. Today, Avro could have been more important in the aviation industry?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You do mean that as a question correct?

Because a plane that was only test flown can not be the best of its time.

[FLYBOYJ]

The Avro Arrow was the best airplane of that time

It had the potential to be one of the best combat aircraft in it's era for the role it was designed for, IMO...

[pbfoot]

The Arrow was in production so it was more then just a test bird but we could not afford it. But I regress what is the matter with our aero space industry. We manufacture the most used engine in the world with the PT6 ,CAE is an absolute leader in flight sims , Bombardier I believe leads in the commuter airline business with the Challenger and Dash aircraft