 | Dec 7th, Pearl Harbour| Post-War Discuss Dec 7th, Pearl Harbour in the Other Eras forums; Originally Posted by syscom3
Japan had the capacity to hold us off till late 1943. After that time, the Allied ... |
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12-20-2005, 08:49 PM
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#31 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by syscom3 Japan had the capacity to hold us off till late 1943. After that time, the Allied forces would have had the quantatative and qualitative edge and Japan would be on borrowed time.
Once the B29's were available in quantity in summer of 1944, then we had the ways of striking any Japanese force/base in the PTO with impunity. | Totally agree. The writing was on the wall for the Japanese.
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12-21-2005, 03:20 PM
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#32 | | Der Crewchief
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Originally Posted by wmaxt Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hunter368 The Japanese had great battles early and then bad later. They were very hot and cold, lol. | Like I pointed out earlier even at Pearl they cut and ran. Had the third strike been launched we would have been so limited we would have lost Coral Sea (no fuel/support for the early missions), Midway (no Yorktown minimum support from Pearl) The possible loss of Austrailia too.
They did the perfect job at Pearl to make sure they lost - they riled us up and left us operational.
wmaxt | Isnt the reason for them pulling off bad intelligence though? At Pearl they did not know where the Carriers were so they had get out before they could theoretically strike back.
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12-21-2005, 03:47 PM
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#33 | | Senior Member
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| Given the state of the art recon abilities for both the US and the IJN at the time, it would have been impossible for them to keep track of the carriers without giving up their planned element of surprise.
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12-21-2005, 04:58 PM
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#34 | | Senior Member
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| I don't think it mattered we only had 3 carriers in the Pacific, and only one that was closely based at Pearl, so at the worst its 1 or two to 6. Our main fleet was sunk at Pearl it was criminal (from the Japanese POV) on Nagumo's part to leave with the job only partialy complete and little real chance of a US counter attack.
My point is that the Japanese could have made it Much Much more difficult if not barely possible for us to retake the Pacific if only, they had just completed their planed operations. We didn't win many/most of the major critical battles the Japanese just quit and gave them to us.
wmaxt | |
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12-22-2005, 11:32 AM
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#35 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by wmaxt Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hunter368 The Japanese had great battles early and then bad later. They were very hot and cold, lol. | Like I pointed out earlier even at Pearl they cut and ran. Had the third strike been launched we would have been so limited we would have lost Coral Sea (no fuel/support for the early missions), Midway (no Yorktown minimum support from Pearl) The possible loss of Austrailia too.
They did the perfect job at Pearl to make sure they lost - they riled us up and left us operational.
wmaxt | One thing we have to all keep in mind also is that still the world was still thinking (for the most part anyway) that the battleship ruled the sea, it did not. The Japanese although were very disappointed that they missed the carriers (and would of made it a clean sweep), they were very very happy with the heavily damage to the surface fleet. They heavily damaged it at almost no cost, big win they were thinking. Now if they had to do it again with say another 6-12 month carrier experence under their belts, they would of realized that the real prizes were the carriers. The surface fleet was very much the secondary target.
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12-22-2005, 02:37 PM
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#36 | | Senior Member
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| For the record, here are the locations of all six of the US carriers.
Lexington At sea enroute to Midway Island
Enterprise At sea near Oahu
Saratoga In port at San Diego
Wasp In Atlantic
Hornet In Atlantic
Yorktown In Atlantic
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12-26-2005, 10:34 AM
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#37 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
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Country: | I still stand by the firm belief that I have stated before that even if they had gotten the Carriers and all the Oil stocks at Pearl it would not have mattered one bit when it comes to the outcome of the war. The US soon showed the world what its production capabilities were (All laid down or completed after Pearl Harbor:
Battleships: 8
Battlecruisers: 3
Aircraft Carriers: 27
Light Fleet Carriers: 56
Heavy Cruisers: 17
Light Cruisers: 40
Destroyers: 319
Destroyers Escort Type: 332
Submarines: 193
Mine Sweepers: 378
Frigates: 112
Not included are the Fleet Auxillaries, Patrol Boats, Transports, etc...
All of this info taken from Janes Fighting ships 1946 edition.
Basically what I am getting at is, no matter what the outcome of Pearl Harbor the US was only slightly hurt and would recover faster and quicker than anyone. Even if the Carriers and the Oil Reserves there had been hit, it would not have changed the outcome.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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12-26-2005, 12:43 PM
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#38 | | World Traveler
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Country:  | Agreed Alder, once the US war machine got started there was very little that could stop it.
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12-26-2005, 01:27 PM
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#39 | | Senior Member
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| The only difference in the course of events is what would have happened in 1942 and 1943.
Strategy would be way different. If anything, the three Atlantic carriers would have been sent to the Pacific immediatly early in 1942 rather than soread out over several months.
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12-26-2005, 01:31 PM
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#40 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
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Country: | I agree. The Carriers would have been sent over sooner. The British allready had Carriers in the Atlantic so that would free up the US Carriers to go to the PTO.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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12-28-2005, 01:22 AM
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#41 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet I still stand by the firm belief that I have stated before that even if they had gotten the Carriers and all the Oil stocks at Pearl it would not have mattered one bit when it comes to the outcome of the war. The US soon showed the world what its production capabilities were (All laid down or completed after Pearl Harbor:
Battleships: 8
Battlecruisers: 3
Aircraft Carriers: 27
Light Fleet Carriers: 56
Heavy Cruisers: 17
Light Cruisers: 40
Destroyers: 319
Destroyers Escort Type: 332
Submarines: 193
Mine Sweepers: 378
Frigates: 112
Not included are the Fleet Auxillaries, Patrol Boats, Transports, etc...
All of this info taken from Janes Fighting ships 1946 edition.
Basically what I am getting at is, no matter what the outcome of Pearl Harbor the US was only slightly hurt and would recover faster and quicker than anyone. Even if the Carriers and the Oil Reserves there had been hit, it would not have changed the outcome. | 100% agree
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12-28-2005, 11:08 AM
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#42 | | Senior Member
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| Just trivia..... One of the reasons the Japanese attacked in late 1941 through early 1942 was that the IJN knew that in 1943, the USN would be receiving the new warships that were begun to have been built in 1940/41.
The IJN knew that they had to have all possible gains consolidated by then.
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12-29-2005, 09:32 AM
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#43 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
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Country: | Yeap but I still beleive that they would have rather attacked at a time more of there choosing.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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