F-80 vs ME262

P38 Pilot · 07-01-2005, 10:21 PM

If the F80 Shooting Star had saw service nearing the end of WWII, do you guys think it would be as equal, less, or greater than the ME262. What type of outcome do you think would it have?

the lancaster kicks ass · 07-02-2005, 03:48 AM

i'd go for the -262, if nothing else, the pilots would have combat experience in a jet...........

P38 Pilot · 07-02-2005, 07:47 AM

Hmm... Your right but what about technoligical? Which Jet do you think was better?

cheddar cheese · 07-02-2005, 08:55 AM

Quite why your posting a NEW TOPIC in the fomrum titled OLD THREADS I dont know...Ill move it..

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-03-2005, 05:40 PM

Id still go with the 262. The P-80 probably would have proven to have had better engines but as for design I would go with the Me-262.

FLYBOYJ · 07-04-2005, 12:37 AM

I'm with the P-80. More reliable, better gun platform (more stable), if met in combat would have the advantage of superior numbers and I believe more maneuverable than the 262. Although the 262 would have the speed advantage, I think a good pilot in a P-80 would dance around a 262.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-04-2005, 02:45 PM

A good pilot in a P-51 could fly around a 262. The 262 was just as good as a gun platform. Other than engines I am still with the 262. She was the best jet engined aircraft of WW2 dispite her terrible engines.

P38 Pilot · 07-05-2005, 09:17 AM

Yeah it just seemed like that because i was reading about how the F80 was the first American jet and that it took its first test flight in December 1944. I wonder why she never took to the skies in Europe?

evangilder · 07-05-2005, 09:34 AM

That is not correct. The first American Jet fighter was the Bell XP-59 Airacomet. It first flew on October 1, 1942. 66 were built. Information on the XP-59 can be found below:

http://www.aviation-history.com/bell/xp59.html

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-06-2005, 07:50 AM

And the P-80 did take to the skies over Europe. She just never saw combat. They kept her in the rear over Italy and England. She was grounded due to problems with the early Jets.

Also your info on when XP-80 first flew is also incorrect.

The XP-80 first flew on Jan. 8, 1944. Infact Lockheed Chief Pilot Milo Burcham was killed on October 20, 1944 while flying the second production prototype. World War II ace Richard Bong was also killed test flying a P-80 on Aug. 6, 1945 the same day the Atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.

45 P-80's were delivered by wars end and 4 of them made it to Europe. 2 were sent to England and 2 were send to Italy. The aircraft was grounded however when test pilot Major Fred Borsodi, demonstrating the P-80 in England, was killed in a crash caused by a fire in the jet engine and therefore did not see any action in WW2.

So as you can see the P-80 like all early jets had great teething problems.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-06-2005, 07:54 AM

As for the P-59, even is correct the P-59 was the first US jet to fly and enter service. She was far from a good plane though and I thought that only about 30 had been built (I could be wrong though) She was pretty much canceled because of her poor performance.

evangilder · 07-06-2005, 08:02 AM

Yes, the P-59 had less than stellar performance, but it did serve as a good platform to introduce pilots to the new technology. You may be right about there being only thirty. I have seen 30 and 66 tossed about and haven't looked thoroughly into it.

P38 Pilot · 07-06-2005, 08:41 AM

Thats how Richard Bong died? Man. He and Thomas Mcquire both didnt make it back to a heroes welcome!
Oh and thanks for giving me that website Flyboyj!

evangilder · 07-06-2005, 08:51 AM

Bong did make it back and was test piloting the P-80 in Southern California when he was killed. I spoke with a guy who was the last guy to see him alive as his plane went down. Dick Bong stayed with the plane to steer it away from houses and apartments. A hero to the end.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-06-2005, 08:51 AM

How did Bong not make it back to a heros welcome? He was given the Medal of Honor. He died in the P-80 crash in the United States.

Quote:

General MacArthur presented the medal to Bong on the Tacloban airfield on December 12, 1944. He tossed away his written remarks and said, "Major Richard Ira Bong, who has ruled the air from New Guinea to the Philippines, I now induct you into the society of the bravest of the brave, the wearers of the Congressional Medal of Honor of the United States." Then he pinned the medal on Bong, they shook hands and saluted.
http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_bong.html

Richard Bong's Medal of Honor Citation:

Quote:

RICHARD I. BONG - Medal of Honor Citation:
(Air Mission)

Rank and organization: Major, U.S. Army Air Corps. Place and date: Over Borneo and Leyte, 10 October to 15 November 1944. Entered service at: Poplar, Wis. Birth: Poplar, Wis. G.O. No.: 90, 8 December 1944.

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action above and beyond the call of duty in the Southwest Pacific area from 10 October to 15 November 1944. Though assigned to duty as gunnery instructor and neither required nor expected to perform combat duty, Maj. Bong voluntarily and at his own urgent request engaged in repeated combat missions, including unusually hazardous sorties over Balikpapan, Borneo, and in the Leyte area of the Philippines. His aggressiveness and daring resulted in his shooting down 8 enemy airplanes during this period.
http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_bong.html

Does not seem like too bad of a homecoming to me:

Quote:

After Bong scored his 40th victory, General Kenney sent him home, this time for good. He was America's "Ace of Aces," with 40 aerial victories, 200 combat missions, and over 500 combat hours behind him. By New Year's Eve, 1945, America's number 1 ace was back in the "Z.I.," headed for Washington D.C. to meet the dignitaries, including General 'Hap' Arnold. At the Pentagaon, he met Bob Johnson, also there on a PR tour. Dick explained that he had been dragged around the country on War Bond tours and hated it. "I've got this coming out my ears, Johnson. I'm sure glad to see you. You can help me bear up under this nonsense. It's worse than having a Zero on your tail."

After his PR trip, he returned to Wisconsin, and married Marge on February 10, 1945. After their California honeymoon, he went to work at Wright Field as a test pilot, helping to develop the Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star. He studied jet propulsion theory and boned up on the engineering details of the new plane for two months, before getting a chance to fly one. After being checked out in the P-80, he flew it eleven times that summer.
http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_bong.html

Hell they even named the airport at Superior Washington after him. Richard Bong is also memorialized at the Richard I. Bong Heritage Center in Superior, Wisconsin, which features many exhibits about Dick Bong as well as a refurbished P-38 on display.