Prop Plus Jet Aircraft

[ccheese]

Near the end of WW-II, the US [and possibily other countries] were trying
out aircraft with both a piston engine, and a jet engine. How many were
there ? Perhaps we can get a good discussion going about the pro's and
con's of a composite propulsion system.

First up is the Ryan FR1, a fighter aircraft. The Ryan FR Fireball was a composite
propeller and jet-powered aircraft designed for the United States Navy during World
War II. The Fireball entered service before the end of the war, but did not see combat.
The FR-1 Fireball was the U.S. Navy's first aircraft with jet propulsion. There were 66 built.

About the same time Curtis was developing the XF15C. An interesting note
about the XF1C. Only three were built. Number 1 crashed, number 2 is on
display at the Quonset Air Museum, at Quonset Point, RI. Number three was
scrapped.



How about the North American AJ-3 "Savage" ? When I was on the USS
Saratoga, we had them on board. It was suppose to be a medium bomber
with carrier capability. I could not find a picture of the "Savage". Maybe
someone has one.

Next up is the P2V-5, "Neptune". A twin engine patrol bomber. I saw these
at NAS Jacksonville, but never flew in the dash five. I did fly in the P2V-2.

And, of course, the "Peacemaker", the B-36, with "six turnin' and four burnin'".
I was fortunate enough to fly in this monster a few times while stationed at
Wheelus AFB, in Tripoli.

How about other countries ? Anybody know of British, German or Japanese
aircraft that tried both units of propulsion on the same aircraft ?

Comments are invited.....

Charles

[rochie]

there was the shackleton 4 rolls royce griffons and two jet engines and i think the russians played around with the La9 by adding rocket or pulse jet engines

[ccheese]

Which reminds me..... didn't Fairchild take a C-119 and put a jet pod on
top of the fuselage ? I know they did modify one [a YC-119K] which was
a C-119G modified with two R-3350 engines and two J-58 underwing fitted
turbojets.

Charles

[rochie]

and didnt the C-123 have jet engines added under the wings

[Matt308]

Combination engines were supposed to allow for greater dash speed, while still affording greater endurance, long range, loiter times when operating prop only.

[ccheese]

Matt: here's a pic of the Ryan Fireball, in formation, with props feathered,
running on jet engines...

Charles

[Flyboy2]

didn't Fairchild take a C-119 and put a jet pod on
top of the fuselage ?

Yes they did... In fact it was on Avia quiz a little while ago
AviaQuiz - Name That Plane! Quizs' Archive

[Matt308]

Yeah Mr. C, depending upon the specific fuel consumption of the engines or turbojets and their combination with a specific airframe, they were traded off. An example being the B-36 that cruised with the six piston engines at about 200mph, but (besides takeoffs) would light up their 4 turbojets for their 400mph run over target.

Another area of consideration might also be the maintenance aspects. Early turboject engines were notoriously short lived MTBO. However, I would also think that as technologies entered the late 50s early 60s that the true maintenance benefit of turbojets began to be realized. Using turbojets for cruise/loitering might also have been influenced by mission readiness rates too.

[HoHun]

Hi Charles,

>How about other countries ? Anybody know of British, German or Japanese
aircraft that tried both units of propulsion on the same aircraft ?

The Me 262 of course made at least one flight on composite power (until the jets failed), but it was not designed for it.

I think trials were flown with the He 219 to determine the possible speed gain from a jet engine suspended below the fuselage, but when not running it decreased performance so badly that the project was abandoned.

Among the multiple projected Do 335 variants, there was at least one designed for composite power, using a jet engine in place of the rear engine for a very clean layout. Of course, this was never built.

Not a German design, but in German use: The North Amercan OV-10 Bronco operated as target tug by the Luftwaffe was tested with an additional jet engine to improve performance and safety margin with a drogue deployed, but again the additional weight and drag of the jet proved to be excessive, and it would actually have been more dangerous to operate.

Generally one could say that after WW2, the development of sufficiently powerful turboprop engines made composite aircraft obsolete as the same operation characteristics could be achieved by more conventional means.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Graeme]

Turboprop and turbojet combination.

French. The Breguet 960 Vultur...



...and American. The Consolidated Vultee XP-81...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...power_aircraft

[Burmese Bandit]

AFAIK the Vultee never flew on the full rated power of the turboprop in front...so it was cancelled before it ever finished the full flight test.

[HealzDevo]

C-123s? Might not have JATOs could it? I know some transport aircraft are meant to use them sometimes to shorten Take-off length when heavily loaded.

[davparlr]

Some C-123 models have J-85 engines installed under the wings.

[HealzDevo]

Okay, I didn't realise about the jet engine experiment. Thought it was JATOs he was getting confused with.

[Dilbert]

I flew the P-2 (old P2-V7, later SP2H) in the '60's. The main engines were a pair of Wright 3350's (the same engine used by the B-29), but Westinghouse J-34 jet engines were added to later models outboard of the piston engines. The aircraft that entered service in 1946 was a trim, relatively light long range patrol bomber, but over the years as more and more electronics were added for submarine detection the airframe became heavier and heavier to a point where single engine performance on take off was compromised. The solution was the addition of jet engines which were used only for take offs (and landings in case of a wave off). They were shut down when you reached cruise altitude as they used a lot of fuel. They incidentally used the piston engines' avgas, 115/145 grade fuel, which burned much hotter than the JP kerosene used in jets. As a consequence the engines had to be overhauled more often that a normal jet engine.

A footnote to the above. There was a P-2 patrolling the Sea of Japan when both recips failed (don't recall just why). They lighted the jets and flew back to the coast on the jets alone and made it just to the shore when the fuel gave out and they were forced to ditch in the surf off a beach. The photos showed the tall vertical stabilizer sticking out of the surf along with the wingtip tanks and part of the forward canopy. Everyone made it to shore.