British Sailors seized by Iran.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by bomber

Well to answer my critics..

There's a right time for everything... and it's not after a couple of days...

In the Cold war with Russia, when they captured an American agent did you Americans make a big issue of it ?
No of course not, because it's not the way to get them back..

We are not at war... whatever you read. War I gather is a lot rougher... shouldn't you guys know that ?

The battlelines are being drawn, the oponents are taking sides,, don't rush into this.. and don't any American or Canadian or whoever think that the Brits are soft, timing is everything.

We Brits are made of stronger stuff, and right now it takes a strong man to stay talking... but when the **** hits the fan you can bet your house on us being in the middle of it.. it's not going to take us 2 years to get involved.

Yes I'm intelligent....(I can't spell tho) probably more than some of those calling for us to launch an attack.. I guess those are the breaks

Simon

This is not war? Are you serious? I'm not sure what you would call a war, Simon. We've lost many brothers and sisters in arms over there. Guess what pal, they aren't going to Iraq and having a tea party. Unless you are a veteran that has spent time in zone - who are you to say it's not war? Every fellow Marine, soldier, sailor, and airmen I know that has been in the sandbox will say it is a war. As soon as they pin wings on my chest the Marines have promised to send me in zone also. Again, may I ask, WHO ARE YOU? Your post smacks of arrogance and niavete. Why would you just assume that you are more intelligent than anyone?

By the way - capturing an operative and uniformed military personnel are vastly different. But, since you are intelligent, you probably already knew that. What would you say would be a proper course to take if king xerxes decided to put these sailors/marines on trial? Continue to wait for perfect timing?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by mkloby

you are a veteran that has spent time in zone - who are you to say it's not war? Every fellow Marine, soldier, sailor, and airmen I know that has been in the sandbox will say it is a war. As soon as they pin wings on my chest the Marines have promised to send me in zone also. Again, may I ask, WHO ARE YOU? Your post smacks of arrogance and niavete. Why would you just assume that you are more intelligent than anyone?

Exactly and that is why his post pissed me off. To say that it is not a war over there and that is not "rough" eneogh! Who the hell is he to say that. I was there, I know what it is like. I have lost comrads over there.

Bomber do me a favor and watch this video of my unit when we were in Iraq and then you tell the families that it was not "rough" over there. I would gladly give you some addresses but you would not have the balls to do it.

YouTube - 1st Infantry Division Memorial VIdeo

[timshatz]

Originally Posted by Matt308

I say give the Iranians what they want.

What is it that they want? Do you think it's the Bomb? Do they want control of the Persian Gulf? Great Arabia?

Not dissin' ya', just trying to figure out what the Persians want? It most certainly isn't 15 British Marines who are on patrol. Everybody on this board knows that this a political grandstanding event. Juxtipose the Iranians actions with the Swiss Army contingent that wandered a mile into a neighboring country before realizing it and heading back. Nobody noticed and would have noticed had the Swiss not said something.

What's the greater goal of the Iranians? What is their plan?

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by timshatz

What is it that they want? Do you think it's the Bomb? Do they want control of the Persian Gulf? Great Arabia?
Not dissin' ya', just trying to figure out what the Persians want? It most certainly isn't 15 British Marines who are on patrol. Everybody on this board knows that this a political grandstanding event. Juxtipose the Iranians actions with the Swiss Army contingent that wandered a mile into a neighboring country before realizing it and heading back. Nobody noticed and would have noticed had the Swiss not said something.
What's the greater goal of the Iranians? What is their plan?

They probably want the release of the Iranians that were captured in Iraq, but that's not going to happen

In an extract from a poem by the great Jeremy Clarkson;

When the world was in trouble we were there in a trice,
We've beaten the Germans solidly twice
But now in battle our guns don't work
And the guys on the subs have started to shirk
We like to think we're a major world power
but in a war today we'd barely last an hour

[plan_D]

"Well. Irrespective. We have your back."

No you don't. The U.S has never backed Great Britain up in any situation that didn't aid them. Never has the U.S sent a military task force to aid Great Britain in her own wars.

Where was the U.S when Great Britain was fighting her war on terrorism against the IRA? Where was the American sword when Argentina invaded the Falklands?

As much as you may like to believe it, Matt, the U.S isn't propping Great Britain up. They haven't always got our back and we haven't always got the U.S back.

The fact of the matter is, in the last twenty years it's been Great Britain aiding America in her wars. It may always be a case of Collie helping the Rotweiler but at least we're there, everytime.

My country may be full of pompous little scrubbers, but at least there's something in the country that throws our military to help our greatest friends in the world, the U.S.A. So, don't start getting this stupid arrogant idea that the USA will always help Britain, and Britain doesn't seem like it would return the favour.

"Not sure if the UK would do the same for us based upon what I read."

Ever since the War of 1812, Britain and America have been alongside each other in almost every war they've fought in. So, pull your head out of your arse and realise Britain has done, and will continue to do so... you should be more grateful because now the country is full of sh*t - so there's even less people here willing to help you.

Great Britain and the U.S.A is the greatest alliance in history. Luckily stupid public opinion of one another hasn't broken that.

[joebong]

These rug weaving bad boys have caused enough trouble, all in the name of nuclear aspiration. I say the U.K/ U.S join together, to sponsor their fissile fetish. We send them a couple dozen warheads, via air delivery. They should get them in 10-20 minutes. Heh heh heh.

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by joebong

These rug weaving bad boys have caused enough trouble, all in the name of nuclear aspiration. I say the U.K/ U.S join together, to sponsor their fissile fetish. We send them a couple dozen warheads, via air delivery. They should get them in 10-20 minutes. Heh heh heh.

How did you do that fissile typo? The f is miles away from the m...

I think the best idea was the 48hr ultimatum. If they don't give up then, negotiating will have been pointless anyways.

[mkloby]

Plan D - I see where you're coming from, but I have a couple comments. First of all, all nations act in self-interest. Sometimes that self-interest falls in-line with aiding another nation. Very rarely will a nation take action if it feels this course of action is detrimental. Fortunately, US and UK interests have long coincided. However, I don't think the examples of Falklands and IRA fit this, nor do I think the UK should have expected I want to believe that if the UK became invovled in a major conflict, the US would not let Britain go south, as what's good for her is often good for the US. Hopefully those in Britain and the US that see the threats of radical islam as a cultural threat to the west will really start making themselves heard.

I don't think the US could have, nor should have gotten involved with Troubles, or anything else to do w/ the IRA. That's an internal affair for the UK to deal with. Such a move would incur the wrath of a large part of America as well. Much of the northeast US sympathizes with the Republican cause, even if they don't support IRA operations - particularly as they took an increasingly large toll of civilians.

With regard to the falklands, it was a territorial dispute between Britain and Argentina. She had to deal with the situation herself, and the matter did not concern the US. Not to mention, she obviously did not need any military assistance from the US. In some instances, I think that a political blessing or approval is sufficient. Can you think of how weak the UK would have looked if US carrier groups steamed south and participated in the counter-attack, along with marine BLTs storming ashores and soldiers taking to the fray.

[plan_D]

I admit my reply wasn't well thought out. And in actual fact I would have never expected U.S aid against the IRA or in the Falklands conflict beyond what was handed to us. However, I did make the comment that Britain doesn't act on behalf of the U.S. For me to believe that nations act in anything other than self-interest is naive, and I recognise that.

"America, The United States, the US of A would fall on its sword for the UK.
Not sure if the UK would do the same for us based upon what I read."

The quote above got to me though. The USA would not fall on its sword for the U.K nor would the U.K fall on its sword for the USA. That comment just annoyed me, I was a little out of line.

[HaWk3r T3mP3sT]

Oi its war now! did you see that angry mob yelling out death to britain and america?

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by HaWk3r T3mP3sT

Oi its war now! did you see that angry mob yelling out death to britain and america?

They were college idiots who had been fed propoganda by president i'm-really-a-member-of-jihad or watever his name is outside the British embassy. They all think that the sun shines out of Iran's arse and staged it to keep things confrontational (and halt some of the diplomacy)

[lesofprimus]

They all think that the sun shines out of Iran's arse and staged it to keep things confrontational (and halt some of the diplomacy)

Sorta sounds like how Japan was back in the days before WW2...

[bomber]

Ohhh I'm convinced now that people are shouting death to Britian that it's a war...

Thanks for clearing that up...

Soilders dieing doesn't constitute a war.. it's an occupational hazzard.
Soilders getting taken hostage doesn't constitute a war, it's another occupational hazzard..

But I think steaming your fleet in there, guns ablazin, or as has been called for on here (without any rebuke) using nuclear weapons most certainly does...

Plan-D good climb down there... and yes what more could the British people want from America in it's own decades long fight against terrosism ? Apart from stoping sending the IRA money and arms, their politicians supporting IRA fund raising rallys ?

Did you notice how as soon as this dried up following 9/11 how quickly the terrosism stoped ?

What I object to most is the goading of British public opinions and forces to start another conflict in the region by non British persons... who should keep their noses out of it...

If the American people want a war with Muslims of the world, then they should do it themselves... because I suspect that's whats going to happen if anyone steams into Iran, The moderate muslim countries governments will have no choice but to listen to their public.

You think this is a war ?.... ohh it will be then that is for sure.

Invade a single county run by a dictator to free it's people is one thing, but attack a democtratic muslim country because it wants nothing more than to have the same nuclear capablity as ourselves is another... and that would be the reason behind attacking, don't think in nievety it's the 15 sailors, because we'd never see them aliive again.

I'm sorry if not having been in the military means that I don't have an opinion in your eyes as to what constitutes a war..

I'm just Dad of 42 to a boy of 13... and if talking can get those sailors home without having to go to WWIII then I say we talk a lot longer than 48 hours !

Simon

[lesofprimus]

but attack a democtratic muslim country because it wants nothing more than to have the same nuclear capablity as ourselves is another...

Are u fu*cking stoopid pal??? A Democratic country RUN BY A FU*CKING TERRORIST.... One who wishes to wipe Israel off the map....

That doesnt sound scary to u???

If not it should...

and if talking can get those sailors home without having to go to WWIII then I say we talk a lot longer than 48 hours !

I agree with u there... But that doesnt stop u from droppin in some SAS boys to "scope" things out a bit and get ready for the next "step" in negotiations....

[Ajax]

Look at this:
UK iran.gif.jpg
They change their story so it looks like what the've done is legal, then get all 15 servicemen to confess. This isn't right...