British Sailors seized by Iran.

[plan_D]

"Plan-D good climb down there... and yes what more could the British people want from America in it's own decades long fight against terrosism ? Apart from stoping sending the IRA money and arms, their politicians supporting IRA fund raising rallys ?"

I quite clearly stated that I wouldn't expect aid from the U.S in the fight against the IRA. The U.S government didn't send the IRA money and arms. The U.S government should have stopped the fund-raising, yes, but that wouldn't be aid.
All the aid to the IRA was personal, and mostly came from the Boston area. The U.S did arrest a few arms smugglers but nowhere near enough.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by HaWk3r T3mP3sT

Oi its war now! did you see that angry mob yelling out death to britain and america?

They do that every day...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Ajax

They were college idiots who had been fed propoganda by president i'm-really-a-member-of-jihad or watever his name is outside the British embassy. They all think that the sun shines out of Iran's arse and staged it to keep things confrontational (and halt some of the diplomacy)

That is what they all do and they are all fed that propaganda day in and day out.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by bomber

Soilders dieing doesn't constitute a war.. it's an occupational hazzard.
Soilders getting taken hostage doesn't constitute a war, it's another occupational hazzard..

Youve been over there? Youve been in street to street, door to door fighting with organized insurgant armies. You have been on the battlefield over there? Wow you really are the expert on this aren't you?

Sorry buddy, but I have been there, I know what it really is like...
You dont...

What you know is what you see in the news and I promise you that it is not like that.

So please before you decide not to call the global war on terrorism and what is going on in Iraq, get a clue!

Originally Posted by bomber

If the American people want a war with Muslims of the world, then they should do it themselves... because I suspect that's whats going to happen if anyone steams into Iran, The moderate muslim countries governments will have no choice but to listen to their public.

The war is allready upon us. Get off your couch and go see it for yourself before you state facts that are not true.

Originally Posted by bomber

You think this is a war ?.... ohh it will be then that is for sure.

Actually I do, but then again I served in the Army over there and do not watch in the news and think I am an expert on the matter.

Originally Posted by bomber

Invade a single county run by a dictator to free it's people is one thing, but attack a democtratic muslim country because it wants nothing more than to have the same nuclear capablity as ourselves is another... and that would be the reason behind attacking, don't think in nievety it's the 15 sailors, because we'd never see them aliive again.

You are blind my friend. They openly state they want the destruction of the west and Isreal. Yeah they are real peace loving animals aren' they?

Originally Posted by bomber

I'm sorry if not having been in the military means that I don't have an opinion in your eyes as to what constitutes a war.

No you are entitled to an opinion but do me a favor before you think you know everything about what is going on over there, get a clue...

I was there, you were not, I know what is going on there.

[Matt308]

Originally Posted by timshatz

What is it that they want? Do you think it's the Bomb? Do they want control of the Persian Gulf? Great Arabia?

Not dissin' ya', just trying to figure out what the Persians want? It most certainly isn't 15 British Marines who are on patrol. Everybody on this board knows that this a political grandstanding event. Juxtipose the Iranians actions with the Swiss Army contingent that wandered a mile into a neighboring country before realizing it and heading back. Nobody noticed and would have noticed had the Swiss not said something.

What's the greater goal of the Iranians? What is their plan?

War, timshatz. War. That's what they want. I say we give it to them. They have been kicking us around on their terms long enough. Time for some payback.

[Erich]

well we are just another step closer to total Muslim country unification and THAT is what the little boy in Tehran wants with his scare tactics. he has stated this publically in his adresses to his own puny nation repeatedly. they are not a demo society, never have been never will, none of the mid-eastern-muslim countries are. Some more educated-yes than others but they are just biding their own time before they get involved. don;t be stupid bomber to think we are not in a war, it started even earlier than the 70's when we started to support Israel both the US and Britain, when the little shrimp from the PLO started having fun blowing up ets thinking he was a real man/fighter. israel should of popped that poop out back in the late 1960's or at least allowed us to move in and do so, but our govt thought it best not too. We sit on a land mine all of us just ready to go off. The Soviets sit north just waiting to be asked for full funding and aiding the Muslims and then they will step in and secure the badly needed oil. they have had army aides in the region for many years.

If the English govt can pull off a paper ploy and get those soldiers home - so be it, but be ready for a blow that is soon to come .......

Babylon will be decided by it's waring tribes not be the demo govt we have been trying to place in leadership. In time Babylon will rise again and with a different name, we as Allies move out home too quickly, Persia and Syria will move in, join forces and will head west towards Israel

[timshatz]

Can't imagine all of those nutjobs want a war. If it does come, the average Iranian is going to be on the losing end of it all.

As for those pokes in the picture who are demonstrating against "The Great Satan", seen that gig before. Talk about the Usual Suspects. You gotta wonder if the people around them actually respect them or see them as losers. The people I know who are "demonstrators" and generally, think of them as clowns. Nice enough, when not in a group of "demonstrators" but not the people I think of when I want to pick the phone up and call somebody to go out for a beer.

[Matt308]

Originally Posted by plan_D

"Well. Irrespective. We have your back."

No you don't. The U.S has never backed Great Britain up in any situation that didn't aid them. Never has the U.S sent a military task force to aid Great Britain in her own wars.

Where was the U.S when Great Britain was fighting her war on terrorism against the IRA? Where was the American sword when Argentina invaded the Falklands?

As much as you may like to believe it, Matt, the U.S isn't propping Great Britain up. They haven't always got our back and we haven't always got the U.S back.

The fact of the matter is, in the last twenty years it's been Great Britain aiding America in her wars. It may always be a case of Collie helping the Rotweiler but at least we're there, everytime.

My country may be full of pompous little scrubbers, but at least there's something in the country that throws our military to help our greatest friends in the world, the U.S.A. So, don't start getting this stupid arrogant idea that the USA will always help Britain, and Britain doesn't seem like it would return the favour.

"Not sure if the UK would do the same for us based upon what I read."

Ever since the War of 1812, Britain and America have been alongside each other in almost every war they've fought in. So, pull your head out of your arse and realise Britain has done, and will continue to do so... you should be more grateful because now the country is full of sh*t - so there's even less people here willing to help you.

Great Britain and the U.S.A is the greatest alliance in history. Luckily stupid public opinion of one another hasn't broken that.

Easy there big dog. My statement was a rant against the dainty panzy ass class of folks that appear to be populating more and more of both our countries. I owe you an apology for that one.

But before you start telling me to remove my head from my lower digestive track, you need to do a little more homework. The US has bent over backwards in support of your country, both directly and indirectly. When we kept nuclear secrets as close as possible to our chest, we gave key technology ONLY to the Brits. No we didn't fight your IRA "insurrection", but then again, you didn't come over here and fight in Watts either. I don't think your example is worth its weight dog turds. And, Mr. D, your Falklands example is just another classic case of your collosal ignorance. The US military (admittedly after some soul searching on how to deal with our number one ally going to war in the already troubled South America) provided your Gov't intelligence and military technology during the war. In fact, as admitted by Lord O'Sullivan, Advisor to Lady Thatcher, some of this brand new military technology was delivered to YOUR wartime footing BEFORE it was delivered to our troops in recognition of YOUR immediate need. This special relationship between our countries cannot be better illustrated than our sharing of the Trident Missiles with MacMillan.

Yes its a two way street, D. But I am very concerned that the liberal bent of many in the UK may be changing that relationship. And not for the better.

[Erich]

Tim wait till the NEW admin comes in 2008, in 4 years alot could be done to reduce our military to nothing and with the plausible thought the Muslims nations of which there are many band together as an alliance. They have moved into the west/Europe subtely after ww2. we have talked about this many times. Adler and others living in Germany know full well of what I speak and in England and in .........

[Matt308]

Originally Posted by timshatz

Can't imagine all of those nutjobs want a war. If it does come, the average Iranian is going to be on the losing end of it all.

.

Tim, agree. That's why we should advocate an ultimatum that of which the Iranian people are made aware. Only then do you destroy the Theocratic (NOT DEMOCRATIC) assets to wage war. Start with destruction of any and all naval assets to prevent them from taking further hostages. And disable their naval port facilities. Sure they are going to ratchet up the response. And oil prices will go out of sight. However, to remain silent and allow that region to acquire nuclear technology coupled with their 4th century anti-Christian (read that as anti-western) mentality is only increasing our risk.

Or perhaps, we could just wait around until we lose a city to some "Islamic nutjob" who is claimed to be acting outside of gov't sponsorship for Middle Eastern anonymity. It's not a question of Iran sponsoring terrorism, training Iraqi insurgents, or threatening to wipe Isreal of the face of the earth. Their leader is a terrorist for Christ's sake.

[twoeagles]

What I find terribly sad is how damaged the Iranian people are as a result of
a generation growing up under the influence of hard line radical Shiite clerics.
In the 1970's, with the Shah in power (and I recognize he had a sinister side),
the people I met had melded Western and Iranian cultures in a way that captured some of the best of both. Wonderful music, food, beautiful women, and warm 'giving' people. Who was or wasn't Muslim was no more important than wondering if the neighbor was Episcopal...With the introduction of
oppressive backwards thinking Shiism, the Iranians have been duped in the worst way...Believing their destiny is guided by Allah, and therefore reason
isn't so important. No more questioning. Blind obediance to the Imams.
It's tragic. Regardless, they will reap what they sow.

[Matt308]

Well said, twoeagles. I too feel for the Iranian people. But conversely, there becomes a time when the oppressed must take up arms and police their own.

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by Matt308

Well said, twoeagles. I too feel for the Iranian people. But conversely, there becomes a time when the oppressed must take up arms and police their own.

True but do they truely know they are being told total BS from their leaders?

Also they have to be willing to become a more flexible modern day citizen on the planet earth. Stop living according to your out of date hard line beliefs.

Be a modern moderate Muslim, not this hardline BS Muslim. Hard liners believe its their way for the world or death. Well as a well rounded free thinking Western I say ........**** THAT!!!

You want to threaten me, threaten my family, threaten my way of life, threaten my beliefs, threaten my freedom........that will only get you war.

Hard line Muslim's understand one thing only.....death. The problem is that the Hard liners are in charge of these other rational Muslims. Hardliners fill their minds with BS, lies, promises of a better after life.

[Matt308]

I work with an Armenian whose Mom and Brother are still in Iran. He claims the people do know. That most, not all, but most want to be a more mainstream world citizen, and blame their gov't for oppressing them. As long as that type of thinking is held by the sheep in their society, things will never change. It is unfortunate that the wolves run the country.

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by Matt308

I work with an Armenian whose Mom and Brother are still in Iran. He claims the people do know. That most, not all, but most want to be a more mainstream world citizen, and blame their gov't for oppressing them. As long as that type of thinking is held by the sheep in their society, things will never change. It is unfortunate that the wolves run the country.

Agreed