British Sailors seized by Iran.

[Jank]

renrich said, "Mkloby, I hope you never have to test yourself on the Code of Honor but have no doubt that you will keep the Faith if you are so tested."

And if it appears that you fail said test miserably, only I will point it out and criticize you for it.

Displaying the Best Traditions of the Royal Navy at the airport in Tehran just berfore returning home.

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[plan_D]

The British sailors had only their SA-80s as defence and one MG. They were confronted by six Iranian armoured vessels, with heavy MG. The sailors were out-numbered, out-gunned and too far from any support. They had one Lynx helicopter in support but they do not have the firepower to provide safety for the sailors in the patrol vessels.

It's nice to believe that these people should have fought, but it would have gotten them killed for nothing. Their actions after capture can be debated all day long, but for anyone to imply the sailors should have gone down all guns blazing have been watching too many Die Hard movies and need to grow up.

The only part of this operation and resultant capture I'm concerned with is the actions of HMS Cornwall, the mother ship. The Iranian vessels would have been detected, the sailors should have been ordered back to the ship while HMS Cornwall steamed toward them. If the Iranians had continued their pursuit, the Lynx should then warn them off - if they refused, by the time they reached the patrol HMS Cornwall would have been in sight and the Iranians would have found their fortunes reversed.

[Ajax]

They didn't know if the Iranians were hostile plan d, so maybe they weren't expecting the confrontation.

And would you risk death & hostilities between two nations for the sake of some now outdated sense of honour?



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[lesofprimus]

The only part of this operation and resultant capture I'm concerned with is the actions of HMS Cornwall, the mother ship. The Iranian vessels would have been detected, the sailors should have been ordered back to the ship while HMS Cornwall steamed toward them. If the Iranians had continued their pursuit, the Lynx should then warn them off - if they refused, by the time they reached the patrol HMS Cornwall would have been in sight and the Iranians would have found their fortunes reversed.

I agree with u 100% pD... What the hell were those yahoos thinking in CIC when the radar operator detected the Iranian vessels....

Someone in the Admiralty is lucky as hell no one was killed...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I happen to agree with mkloby here. We do not know what was happening in behind those walls, opinions are fine but lets not pass judgement.

As for the code of conduct you are trained to hold out as long as you can but when you do cave in (and everyone does eventually, that is taught as well in training) you are to give some kind of hint that you are still alive and kicking and just doing this to stay alive. Those US airforce pilots who were shot down in the first gulf war did just that. Our Airforce SEAR trainers taught us about it, and when you know what to do and what to look for it is obvious that you are doing so to keep from getting your face kicked in.

[evangilder]

The key with confessions and the like is that they are used for propaganda purposes. One thing to show you are under duress is to do something uncharacteristic. If a written confession, deliberately misspell a word, or sign your name different than you normally would. Spoken confessions, use body language or mispronounce words, or pronounce them differently than you would normally. It has to be subtle enough that your captors would not know the difference, but people that know you do.

I always hated the thought of being captured and thankfully never was. The only time that was close, I had a bullet in reserve. I knew what the people we were up against were particularly nasty, and did not even know what the Geneva convention was, much less follow it. I had seen their handywork, and knew then that they would not be any kinder to me.

[pbfoot]

I think its possible that the smaller iranian ships approached using the larger vessel that was to be searched as a block from radar . I've been given to understand that it is a fairly congested waterway and these were smaller ships. Where was AWACS those ships departure and courses should have been plotted as soon as they left port . There are so many variables and tactics that could have been used to mask detection and and intentions . There is no doubt it was planned and even possible the ship to be searched was a Judas Goat. Was all the radar operational ot was some or any of the systems down for maintainence . Was temperature inversion a problem was there precipitation . None of us know . Once again our collective securuty clearance on this website is
"cleared to Rumour"

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by evangilder

I always hated the thought of being captured and thankfully never was. The only time that was close, I had a bullet in reserve. I knew what the people we were up against were particularly nasty, and did not even know what the Geneva convention was, much less follow it. I had seen their handywork, and knew then that they would not be any kinder to me.

Same here. When I was in Iraq I had an extra bullet just in case. I was not going to be captured (I to this day have not told my wife that however).

[Joe2]

Originally Posted by Ajax

BBC News Player - Navy crewman 'apologises'

Another bold, obvious move.

They probably had AK-47s pointed at him the whole time

[bigZ]

I believe they are now going to sell their story. Does this setup a dangerous precedent?

I too am curious to know what is the approved conduct for captured British servicemen? I cant help comparing them to the 2 British tornado airmen captured during the first Gulf War(you could tell those guys had it hard).

[Ajax]

I don't know if they will sell their stories; they would live the rest of their lives scared of some Iranian gunslinger coming through the door

[pbfoot]

I guess following that vein I would think the movie can't be far behind .
I can't see the MoD allowing it while in uniform

[plan_D]

The body language of all the sailors shown on Iranian TV was analysed, and everytime they "confessed" it was obvious they were shuffling to say it's not the truth.

[bigZ]

Originally Posted by Ajax

I don't know if they will sell their stories; they would live the rest of their lives scared of some Iranian gunslinger coming through the door

As far as am aware the Navy has given the green light for them to sell their stories as they felt someone from their familiy would spill the beans anyway. Apparently 2 marines are going to donate their fees.

But does this open up a possible dangerous precedent for other service personal to sell their stories, especially in on going conflicts?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Ajax

I don't know if they will sell their stories; they would live the rest of their lives scared of some Iranian gunslinger coming through the door

This is not Hollywood.