AND IN THIS CORNER: The Barrett M468......

lesofprimus · 10-29-2005, 11:40 PM

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Yeah, you guys got into some fun in Panama, Les.

Lost 2 good buddies and my best freind Carlos was paralyzed... Heres a pic of him and I waaayyy back in the day...... Proof positive that if u dont have qualified men in ur intelligence loop, excellent operatives lose their lives...

lesofprimus · 10-29-2005, 11:47 PM

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The M468 rifle is just an M-16 with a wider barrel

No, it is a new reciever assembly that is still able to use all the M-16/M4 accessories, something your precious little XM-8 cant lay title to.... Its more cost effective to upgrade an existing weapon than replace it....

plan_D · 10-29-2005, 11:55 PM

I should have figured you were involved in Operation El Dorado Canyon, Eric. It was quite stupid of me as I knew that F-111s from RAF Lakenheath took part in the operation and you were there at the time!

Sorry to hear about your friends, les. I hope you more than made up for the loss.

evangilder · 10-30-2005, 01:07 AM

Yep, I was on the Comm Support team for that. I got the full debrief after the op too. Nothing like pave-tack footage.

plan_D · 10-30-2005, 01:10 AM

It was a real show of force! I've seen a few after-action pictures here and there. I think the U.S used more naval vessels and aircraft in that short space of time than Britain did in the whole Falklands war!

evangilder · 10-30-2005, 01:17 AM

I remember the pattern being very busy that day. I was up in the tower during launch, and recovery. After launch, some came back. They sent up more than needed just in case. I do remember 4 111's would go out, then a tanker would pass over, 4 more, tanker, etc. It was pretty amazing to watch. Very well timed and orchestrated with radio silence until "feet wet". Then the channels went berserk.

plan_D · 10-30-2005, 01:21 AM

I think there were four FB-111s that went up as reserve, if I remember correctly. As you were there, you'd know better naturally. The French wouldn't let the USAF fly over France, would they?

It was A-6s and F-111s mainly, wasn't it? I know they had a fair few tankers because of the long trip.

evangilder · 10-30-2005, 01:59 AM

I wasn't aware of any FB-111s as I am pretty sure there weren't any in England stationed there permanently. There were F-111Es and EF-111 Ravens out of RAF Upper Heyford with the F-111Fs from RAF Lakenheath. Tankers came from RAF Mildenhall. The Navy Had A-6s for attack, while F-14s flew CAP for the raid. Several from Lakenheath and Heyford went up as extras in reserve. Those guys were not happy to return.

You are correct, no overflying France. As a matter of fact, no emergency landings either. A couple of guys made an emergency landing in Spain as the French wouldn't allow it. The F-111 that did not make it back, with Paul Lawrence and Fernando Ribas-Dominici were NOT shot down as some have reported. I personally knew the guy who led the raid, I flew with him for a check ride once and he saw what happened. As far as I know, he still wants his name confidential and I will honor that. He saw them turn to avoid a SAM and their wingtip hit a wavetop in the Gulf of Sitre. He saw them cartwheel across the top of the water as the plane broke up and exploded.

I don't know how much of the op has been declassified, so that is about all I can safely say at the moment.

plan_D · 10-30-2005, 01:13 AM

I was under the impression that FB-111s were involved, even more to the point I was under the impression the aircraft that was lost was a FB-111. As always though, I will take the word of someone who was actually involved over my scarce reading on the subject.

The tankers were from Mildenhall and Fairford, weren't they? I remember they converted a tanker for a operational command unit to control the USAF forces while the carrier USS America (?) was the operational command for the naval forces.

I suppose I should just look it up on the internet. But, as always it's interesting to hear from someone who was involved. And of course, don't want to step on the secrets - and, as you know, I'd never expect you to. I might not be in the military ...but I certainly have knowledge and respect enough to understand what did and "didn't" happen.

evangilder · 10-30-2005, 08:12 AM

Well, I can definitely say that the one that was lost was an F-111F. There are some other facts about the crew that are quite interesting. Major Ribas almost always had some sort of problem on his aircraft, hot brakes, compressor stall, bird strike, etc. I personally watched him roll out on the runway and used the light gun to signal him out on the SOFs command. That was the first time that any of us could remember that he had a smooth takeoff and departure.

Sometimes, the F-111 in general was called an FB, but there are FB- models and just F- models. They often are mixed because the F-111 is not much of a fighter really. The FB is easily distinguished by a plexiglas panel on the bottom of the nose section, just behind the radome. Also FBs would often carry external fuel tanks that could be carried on the regular Fs, but most often were not.

You are correct about Fairford. I had forgotten about them as they were used for Heyford's birds mostly. As for what Navy ships were involved and their units, I am not sure. I think we got that in debrief, but that was almost 20 years ago and we weren't allowed to write anything down during the debrief. I am surprised I remember as much as I did!

Here is a picture of an FB with the panel that I mentioned above.

P38 Pilot · 10-30-2005, 08:48 AM

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You are correct, no overflying France. As a matter of fact, no emergency landings either. A couple of guys made an emergency landing in Spain as the French wouldn't allow it. The F-111 that did not make it back, with Paul Lawrence and Fernando Ribas-Dominici were NOT shot down as some have reported. I personally knew the guy who led the raid, I flew with him for a check ride once and he saw what happened. As far as I know, he still wants his name confidential and I will honor that. He saw them turn to avoid a SAM and their wingtip hit a wavetop in the Gulf of Sitre. He saw them cartwheel across the top of the water as the plane broke up and exploded.

I remember my dad telling me about that Operartion! He said,
"The damn French wouldn't even let our Air Force fly over. We had to go around the whole damn country!

evangilder · 10-30-2005, 08:52 AM

That we did. Somehow the French embassy got some damage from a missile that struck nearby. I wonder how that happened...

plan_D · 10-30-2005, 09:17 AM

Thanks for the clarification, Eric. It seems I better watch my sources when I read more about the operation. If I have a lot of questions I'll start a new thread.

evangilder · 10-30-2005, 09:22 AM

Sounds good to me. I will contribute as much as I can remember, if it doesn't get into anything classified.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 10-30-2005, 03:16 PM

Interesting info. I knew about the operation but never talked to anyone who had anything to do with it.