Pilot gave no warning before Boeing 777 crash, reports say

[Royzee617]

Boeing 777s had six other engine failures

By David Millward, Transport Editor
Last Updated: 2:52am GMT 24/01/2008

The type of aircraft that crash-landed at Heathrow last week has had six other engine failures logged by American investigators, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.
# John Lanchester: The end of our golden age of flying

Details of the incidents involving Boeing 777s emerged as officials from the Air Accidents Investigation Branch try to uncover the reasons behind last week's accident involving British Airways flight 038 from Beijing.

The BA Boeing 777 which crashed landed at Heathrow
Computer failure, bird strike and fuel starvation have all been explored as possible causes for the crash landing

The earlier failures were logged by the US National Transportation Safety Board, which has an investigator working with the AAIB. It has been established that the two engines on the BA jet failed to produce the thrust needed as the plane, with 136 passengers on board, came in to land.

At first it was thought that the aircraft suffered a catastrophic double engine failure but it has since emerged that one engine was still turning even after the plane hit the ground.

This makes the findings of the previous incidents of crucial importance as they all refer to single engine problems.

These are the previous incidents:
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• Aug 2 2005: The greatest interest is likely to be in an incident when a Malaysian-registered 777 suffered a loss of thrust while climbing half an hour after take off from Perth before returning and landing safety.

Australian investigators identified computer failings which led to the pilots being given inaccurate speed readings and the US Federal Aviation Administration in Washington ordered a computer upgrade, warning that faulty data could cause difficulties with the flight controls, autopilot, pilot displays, brakes and autothrottles.

The preliminary AAIB report into last Thursday's crash-landing pinpointed problems with the autothrottle as one of the factors which triggered the emergency.

• July 1, 1998: An Air France plane en route to Paris from Sao Paolo suffered an "uncommanded engine shutdown". Investigators identified oil pump contamination as the cause.

• Jan 30, 2001: A United Arab Emirates 777 suffered an engine failure as a result of a defective fan blade. Investigators identified fatigue cracking as the cause.

• June 6, 2001: A Thai Airways 777 suffered a ruptured fuel tube en route from Taipei to Bangkok.

• June 23, 2005: A Japan airlines 777 stalled after taking off from Tokyo. An inspection revealed a hole in the turbine casing.

• Sept 18, 2006: The right engine of another Malaysian 777 shut down 40 miles north-west of Brisbane but was restarted.

Theories to explain Flight 038's landing 1,000ft short of the Heathrow runway, included computer failure, bird strike and contaminated fuel or fuel starvation.

But last night bird strike and fuel starvation appeared to have been ruled out as no feathers were found nearby and had there been fuel problems the engine would have spluttered.

A Boeing spokesman said: "The 777 has been in service for 12 years and has flown around 3.6 million flight hours during which there have been no fatalities. It would be inappropriate to comment at this stage."

[Matt308]

UK AIS information (source witheld)

Autothrottle appears to have been working fine with proper commands. Autothrottle commanded an increase in thrust, two seconds later left engine thrust reduced to between idle and commanded thrust. 8 seconds later right engine thrust reduced to between idle and commanded thrust. 2 miles out 600ft initial loss of thrust occurred. Fuel flow sensors indicate fuel was being supplied to both engines, but not at Autothrottle commanded rate of flow. Initial fuel samples indicate fuel clear with no apparent contaminants. Fuel sent for further analysis.

Impact was 25ft/sec.

Hmmmm...

[davparlr]

There was a three engine failure on an L1011 (it only has three) but the plane was recovered successfully.

May 4, 1983. Miami-Nassau-Miami
Eastern Airlines, N334EA. L-1011-1 (serial no 1141).
Flight 855 departed Miami for a 37 minutes trip to Nassau. When they descended through 15000 ft the low oil pressure light for the #2 engine illuminated. During the short flight all engines had indicated normal pressure and quantity but now the #2 engine showed low level (~8 qts) and pressure (~15-25 psi) while engines #1 and #3 still indicated normal. The #2 engine was shut down, the APU started, and with poor weather at Nassau the Captain decided to return to Miami. The flight was now down at 12000 ft and turned back towards Miami while climbing up to FL200.
When climbing through 15000 ft they got a low oil pressure light for the #3 engine. The Captain retarded the #3 throttle slightly and reduced the rate of climb. Then the #1 engine low oil pressure light illuminated. The gauges at the Flight Engineer´s panel showed that the oil pressure on both operating engines were low and falling and that all quantity gauges indicated zero. Since the risk of this happening is very slim the crew considered indication problems. They levelled off at 16000 ft at 300 kt and told ATC about their problems. ATC cleared them direct to Miami and speed was reduced to 230 kt.

Then, with no warning, the #3 engine failed. They were now flying on one engine. They radioed Miami and was cleared for a straight-in approach for runway 27L, still with 70 miles to go. They started a descend and also began dumping fuel. The weather at Miami was good and the crew now realized that the gauges were functioning properly. At 12000 ft also #1 engine failed. They were now 55 miles from Miami with no engines at all running. The rate of descend increased to 1600 ft/min with a speed of 225 kt and the crew now tried to restart engine #2 through windmilling. It did not start.

The cabin was prepared for ditching. The Captain would set it down on the water with the landing gear retracted, normal landing flaps and with the nose pitched up at 12 degrees. That would probably torn off the wing engines, flaps and horizontal stabiliser. The aircraft would still be expected to stay afloat for 20-25 minutes.

There was little hope of any successful restart of the wing engines but the crew tried it anyway, with no success. Now an airstarter assisted restart of engine #2 was carried out and at 4000 ft, still with 22 miles to Miami, it started. At 3000 ft they headed straight for runway 27L. On landing both engines #1 and #3 smoked badly bacause the fuel switches were still on from the previous start attempts and fuel was still beeing pumped. Fire bottles were discharged on both those engines.

The Captain asked for a tug to tow the aircraft away from the runway but was informed that there would be a delay for that. Then he tried to use the #2 engine only to find that there was no power available. The #2 engine failed on the runway.

The reason for all three engines losing all their oil was a magnetic chip detector replacement, on all engines, the previous night. The installed chip detectors were all missing their o-rings and when the engines were started they began to leak oil. A ten-second engine motoring was carried out at night to check for leaks but it was established later that a minimum of 30 seconds was required to get a leak with o-rings missing.

And about the start attempts on engine #2: The crew entered the chart incorrectly and tried a windmill start when an airstarter assisted one would be required. Later on, when they discovered that they needed airstarter assist the engine started. If they would have entered the chart correctly the first time - would the #2 engine have lasted all the way to Miami?

Read the full story in Stanley Stewart´s book "Emergency - Crisis on the Flight Deck".

[fly boy]

wait what happend to a 777?

[fly boy]

and 777s don't have 4 engines that a 747

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Do you watch the news?

And no it was a 777 that crash landed and not a 747 unless you are talking dav's post and that is a 3 engined L1011 which still is not a 747...

[Torch]

Latest update:The British Airways Boeing 777-200ER which crash landed at London Heathrow on 17 January had adequate fuel on board and that both engines continued to generate thrust, albeit much-reduced, say investigators.

Preliminary findings from the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch had indicated that the twinjet's Rolls-Royce Trent 800 engines had failed to respond to an auto-throttle command for increased thrust during the final stage of the approach.

In an update issued last week, however, the AAIB says both engines did initially respond to the auto-throttle command, but that the starboard engine's thrust reduced after about 3s and the port engine's thrust also reduced to a similar level 8s later.

"The engines did not shut down and both engines continued to produce thrust at an engine speed above flight-idle, but less than the commanded thrust," it adds.

Data from the flight recorders, says the AAIB, shows that an "adequate" fuel quantity was on board the twin-jet and that both the auto-throttle and engine-control commands were performing as expected, both before and after the thrust reduction.

"All possible scenarios that could explain the thrust reduction and continued lack of response of the engines to throttle-lever inputs are being examined," it adds.

It states that the analysis includes examination of the fuel-flow path between the 777's fuel tanks and the engine fuel nozzles.

All 136 passengers and 16 crew members on board the aircraft (G-YMMM) escaped with only a handful of minor injuries after the aircraft, operating flight BA038 from

[fly boy]

deralder why did you put my thing about the jet bomber?

[Matt308]

Say what?? By the way, suicidal cats should not play with guns. For that you need a real kitty.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by fly boy

deralder why did you put my thing about the jet bomber?

Just pull the trigger!

[mkloby]

[fly boy]

flyboy i have no trigger to pull

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by fly boy

flyboy i have no trigger to pull

[Njaco]

phew! He finally changed it! I like Matt's though.