Shades of 1930?

[Shinpachi]

TEC. This is a historical topic.

[tail end charlie]

TEC. This is a historical topic.

Shinpachi

The great wall of china goes through present day China but originally marked its northern border
from wiki

The Chinese were already familiar with the techniques of wall-building by the time of the Spring and Autumn Period, which began around the 8th century BC.[5][6] During the Warring States Period from the 5th century BC to 221 BC, the states of Qin, Wei, Zhao, Qi, Yan and Zhongshan[7][8] all constructed extensive fortifications to defend their own borders. Built to withstand the attack of small arms such as swords and spears, these walls were made mostly by stamping earth and gravel between board frames.


The Kamikaze (神風, Japanese for divine wind), were two winds or storms that are said to have saved Japan from two Mongol fleets under Kublai Khan. These fleets attacked Japan in 1274 and again in 1281

Japan made two invasions of Korea, in Japan's first invasion 1592 and 1596, creating war along the length of the peninsula until, with a truce period, 1598. Those Imjin Wars involved China and resulted in further conflicts on the Korean Peninsula.
unquote

I dont make any excuse for the British conduct in the Opium Wars or their part in the Boxer rebelion but I dont agree that prior to European and later American involvement the region was a peaceful idyll.

[Shinpachi]

I am glad TEC you have taken my post as a historical one.
I don't want to make it political either.
Thanks for your good understanding.

Sorry for my insufficient comment last time.
Korea was combined to Japan in 1910 formally based on the treaty though it was unfair one.
There was no war between China and Japan from 1281 to 1894 more than six hundreds years.
It was more than three hundreds years between Korea and Japan.
That was long enough to forget how to make a war.

China was totally forgetting how to fight, so she was easily colonized.
Japan also astonished to receive the modernized US fleet led by Commodore Perry in 1853.
To avoid colonization, through Meiji Revolution, she decided to westernize the nation with militarism in 1867.
I understand this was the beginning for the later destructive ending in 1945.

Western nations taught Japan how to make a modern war but she did not learn how to control it well.

[mikewint]

Shinpachi, i don't mean to bring up old and bad times but japan's invasion of china was one of the most brutal invasions in modern history. as we call it, "The rape of Nanking". it seems to me, forgive me if i am blunt here, that there must have been tremendous amounts of hatred built-up over all those years that suddenly had a release. i also suspect that japan's island status had a lot to do with the peace between japan and china.

[Shinpachi]

Shinpachi, i don't mean to bring up old and bad times but japan's invasion of china was one of the most brutal invasions in modern history. as we call it, "The rape of Nanking". it seems to me, forgive me if i am blunt here, that there must have been tremendous amounts of hatred built-up over all those years that suddenly had a release. i also suspect that japan's island status had a lot to do with the peace between japan and china.

So, as I said, I feel deep apology for the Chinese.
It was our fault with no doubt.

[mikewint]

Shinpachi, there is no need for you to apologize for things done by your government any more than i am responsible for things done in vietnam by my government. humans are violent animals and our inhumanity to ourselves has no parallel in any other species. Westerners may have taught japan a new way to wage war but did not create enmity between japan and china.

[Shinpachi]

Thanks mikewint for your good understanding.
The 'enmity' would be a good lesson for us.

[tail end charlie]

I am glad TEC you have taken my post as a historical one.
I don't want to make it political either.
Thanks for your good understanding.

Sorry for my insufficient comment last time.
Korea was combined to Japan in 1910 formally based on the treaty though it was unfair one.
There was no war between China and Japan from 1281 to 1894 more than six hundreds years.
It was more than three hundreds years between Korea and Japan.
That was long enough to forget how to make a war.

China was totally forgetting how to fight, so she was easily colonized.
Japan also astonished to receive the modernized US fleet led by Commodore Perry in 1853.
To avoid colonization, through Meiji Revolution, she decided to westernize the nation with militarism in 1867.
I understand this was the beginning for the later destructive ending in 1945.

Western nations taught Japan how to make a modern war but she did not learn how to control it well.

Shinpachi

It is impossible to condense a whole regions history into a few paragraphs. From the British side involvement in China centered on two things
1 Greed trying to make money out of India by selling Opium to China as well as legitimate trade.
2 Continuing the "great game" preventing Russian expansion. The fleet which defeated the Russians was mainly constructed in the UK. Japan was seen as a good ally to contain Russian expansion however after the defeat of Russia, Japan became a power in its own right and started to expand itself. China itself was hardly a country at all with rival regions and war lords some of whom had expansionist ideas in the north.

I read in one article that it was only the Japanese invasion that truely united, China initially there was no national response.

Things change with time, Britain had many wars with the Dutch but the German states were allies, when the German states united then the situation quickly reversed.

[javlin]

I do not know if hatred was the end all for China.I have been reading one the "The Rising Sun" and it goes deeply into the politics within the Japanese hierarchy with the military wanting control and China was a way to pacify the young troops in Japan for more or less National pride.There was one revolt were these young disenchanted troops killed many of the statesman of Japan and some of the Generals whom they disagreed with on China (late 20's early 30's).These young troops actually took over part of downtown Toyko for about 24hrs+ with barricades till a temporary agreement was resolved between them and the Hierarchy.

Now we have another push on Japan this time by Russia

Japanese officials have reacted angrily to a visit today by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev to a group of disputed, mineral-rich islands seized by the Soviet Union at the end of World War II.

Russia, however, regards the island chain as a symbol of its victory during World War II, and sees no reason why it should give up possession of a legitimately acquired prize. That island dispute has prevented the two countries from ever signing a formal peace treaty in the 65 years since the end of World War II.

Russia Angers Japan With Visit to Disputed Islands

[javlin]

So N.Korea shells S.Korea with some 200 shells the most since 1953 and as I mentioned in the previous post to possibily satisfy the Military.

It also follows moves by leader Kim Jong-il to make his youngest, but unproven, son his heir apparent, leading some analysts to question whether the bombardment might in part have been an attempt to burnish the ruling family's image with the military.

The question is will S.Korea respond?will the world respond?I think quite not yet but another attack by the North will probably provide a response.You have the North in the last year sinking the Destroyer killing 46 and now this attack on the Base killing 2,remains to be seen.

[michaelmaltby]

"When you got nuthin', you got nuthin' to lose"

(B Dylan)

[javlin]

Typical UN response: Even as the world struggles to find workable ways to constrain North Korea’s expanding nuclear weapons program and unpredictable belligerence, United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon is planning how to channel new streams of aid and development money to the dangerous regime
FoxNews.com - U.N. Secretary General Eyes New Aid for North Korea

Chamberlain in the making............

[michaelmaltby]

I agree, Javlin, the situation is very serious. Behind the curtain is China. China could stop this nonsense and posturing in a second - if they had the notion. But they are afraid of being over-run by N. Korean refugees if the regime collapses. (S. Korea also shares that fear). But that little pimple should be nipped.

MM

[Njaco]

Just a reminder we have a thread for the recent events in Korea and to be careful this doesn't develope into a political discussion.

It has been interesting learning some background history of the Asian countries.

[michaelmaltby]

@Njaco: "... we have a thread for the recent events in Korea".

".... be careful this doesn't develope into a political discussion".