Shades of 1930?

[diddyriddick]

Historic enmity between China and Japan heats up.



World Blog - Historic enmity between China and Japan heats up

[Aaron Brooks Wolters]

I had not heard about this. Interesting. Hope the two countries can work it out peacefully.

[ccheese]

Had not heard about it either. Either country could muster a million man army in a heartbeat.... so it could get very
ugly. Russia would back China, and the US would back Japan, and it would be "here we go again".

Charles

[Shinpachi]

That is not so big news here as in China.
I am frankly surprised.

[tail end charlie]

Had not heard about it either. Either country could muster a million man army in a heartbeat.... so it could get very
ugly. Russia would back China, and the US would back Japan, and it would be "here we go again".

Charles

I worked briefly in Russia and for a year in China. The Russians are as afraid of China as they are of the west. China is a nuclear power who share a border and outnumber them by approximately 10 to 1 and Chinas population is increasing while Russias is pretty static. So I dont know whether Russia would back China for ideological reasons or stay on the right side for fear of making an enemy of them.

The Chinese young and old all have a deap seated loathing of Japan, there has been no reconciliation as there has in Europe.

[Shinpachi]

There was reconciliation, TEC , before Mao Zedong took power.
Thanks for sharing your good experience in Russia and China.

[tail end charlie]

There was reconciliation, TEC , before Mao Zedong took power.
Thanks for sharing your good experience in Russia and China.

lol Shinpachi ...believe me Russia wasnt a good experience. Russia was the most depressing and scary place I ever went to. My father was on the arctioc convoys taking food and materials to them and they arrested him for his trouble.

What I meant was a reconcilliation between the people. Many would not buy a Japanese car because they still get vandalised for instance.

[Glider]

China is starting to throw its weight about in economic matters as well as political. Nearly all modern electronics from cruise missiles to laptops and optics, use substances called rare earth materials. China over the last 20 years has built up a near monopoly by undercutting the price forcing other companies out of business. The USA closed its last mine around 5 years ago.
About a month ago they cut exports to the rest of the world by 71% citing the environmental damage done by the ore extraction and their own need. Companies would only get the materials they need if they relocate their high tech factories and reasearch labs to China and Japan seems to be the first country to feel the pinch.

To give you some idea the material costs approx $800,000 a ton.

I suspect this type of dispute has some way to go.

[timshatz]

I'm with Glider on this one. This is just getting started. There are a bunch of islands/islets out in the S China Sea (and other places) that are disputed. As economic power grows, as economic need grows and there is no central authority to mediate disputes, it is pretty likely this will get out of hand. Especially when the global economy tanks at some point. Then, Govts will look after their own at the expense of others. In Asia, that means grabbing raw materials.

Europe went through this process in the 20th century and it took two very brutal wars for it all to settle out, at least to the point it is at now (much better than 100 years ago but still with problems).

Asia has not and the populations, power and needs are growing.

This sort of thing is going to become more common. Where it goes is an unknown.

[timshatz]

Less the 1930s, more the late 1800s with China playing the part of Germany, Japan being England, India being France and a ton of Balkan like states throughout the region.

[tail end charlie]

China is starting to throw its weight about in economic matters as well as political. Nearly all modern electronics from cruise missiles to laptops and optics, use substances called rare earth materials. China over the last 20 years has built up a near monopoly by undercutting the price forcing other companies out of business. The USA closed its last mine around 5 years ago.
About a month ago they cut exports to the rest of the world by 71% citing the environmental damage done by the ore extraction and their own need. Companies would only get the materials they need if they relocate their high tech factories and reasearch labs to China and Japan seems to be the first country to feel the pinch.

To give you some idea the material costs approx $800,000 a ton.

I suspect this type of dispute has some way to go.

Glider

I read aboiut that but the article stated that rare earth metals arnt in fact rare, they occur all over the world but are expensive to extract. China has cornered the market by undercutting the price, it will take a few years for other miners to develop mines.

But I agree with everything you say china is flexing her muscles.

[Shinpachi]

China did not claim the islands till 1970 when the possibility of the offshore oil field around there was pointed out.
Their old maps and documents show they were recognizing the islands belonging to Japan.

As TEC points out, the rare earth metals are not rare.
A few years for development looks short.

[mikewint]

tailend, you are correct the "rare earth metals" (earth is an old term for an ore) comprise the lanthanides and actinides. the actinides are radioactive like uranium or thorium and most are man-made. so the term rare earth applies to the lanthanides, 14 elements whose chemical and physical properties are almost identical to the element lanthanum. such an ore would be a mixture of several lanthanides and the identicalness of properties make separation very very difficult and expensive. thus it is a pure sample of one of these elements that is rare and expensive

[tail end charlie]

tailend, you are correct the "rare earth metals" (earth is an old term for an ore) comprise the lanthanides and actinides. the actinides are radioactive like uranium or thorium and most are man-made. so the term rare earth applies to the lanthanides, 14 elements whose chemical and physical properties are almost identical to the element lanthanum. such an ore would be a mixture of several lanthanides and the identicalness of properties make separation very very difficult and expensive. thus it is a pure sample of one of these elements that is rare and expensive

Mike like I said I read it in an article (in a business section). The rare has a different meaning to normal......some are very very common (it said) its the exctraction that is the problem.

[timshatz]

China did not claim the islands till 1970 when the possibility of the offshore oil field around there was pointed out.
Their old maps and documents show they were recognizing the islands belonging to Japan.

As TEC points out, the rare earth metals are not rare.
A few years for development looks short.

Sounds about right. Century old claims all of the sudden pop up when somebody thinks there's money to be made.