UK soldiers patrol 'Little Afghanistan' - Aircraft of World War II

Colin1 · 07-02-2009, 10:38 AM

If I've read it correctly
they've captured the feel of the Hindu Kush mountains with the flat, lowland canal-ways of Norfolk

British Army builds mock Afghan village in English countryside - CNN.com

Amsel · 07-02-2009, 11:15 AM

Interesting idea and a good one if it lends to the implementation on the battlefield of winning hearts and minds. I think the only way to achieve success in Afghanistan is combined action platoons of coalition forces and local militias living together in a village, working together as well as patrolling together. Hopefully programs like this will help coalition forces bridge the enourmous cultural gap.

trackend · 07-02-2009, 11:49 AM

Cant see any successfull out come from the Afgan conflict. no luck in the 1890's and the same problem now, no held ground so the Taliban dissapear only to return once coalition troops have left.

timshatz · 07-02-2009, 12:11 PM

Agree with you trackend. Problem goes back further. Hell, even Alexander the Great had problems with these people. Tough to understand but shooting at each other is something of a national past time over there. It's what they do.

There is no solution. It's tribal, it will go on.

Amsel · 07-02-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

Agree with you trackend. Problem goes back further. Hell, even Alexander the Great had problems with these people. Tough to understand but shooting at each other is something of a national past time over there. It's what they do.

There is no solution. It's tribal, it will go on.

You're probably right, but while our coalition is fighting in the region a "combined action platoon" type of mentality might help more then hinder. Some seeds of modernity and democracy might even be planted in some peoples minds. Though that shouldn't replace the main mission of nuetralizing Al Queada.

Colin1 · 07-02-2009, 12:38 PM

The coalition isn't trying to invade Afghanistan
that's the key difference between the 19th century debacle and what's happening now. With a concerted hearts and minds drive this is winnable.

U.S. launches 'major operation' in Afghanistan - CNN.com

timshatz · 07-02-2009, 02:33 PM

Define "winnable"?

Amsel · 07-02-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

Define "winnable"?

I guess that would depend on the mission.

wheelsup_cavu · 07-02-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

Define "winnable"?

Just curious where this thread is heading now.

Wheels

Colin1 · 07-02-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelsup_cavu

Just curious where this thread is heading now

It's not going anywhere
I don't think there was anything particularly contentious about describing Afghanistan as 'winnable'. Coalition action in the country has the backing of Karzai and the Helmand governor seems pretty upbeat about the chances of success. Regardless of whether he's egging up the prospects of success or not, this has Afghan approval and includes the continued involvement of their military. That provides a gulf of difference between what the coalition could potentially achieve in-country and what the last modern, large-scale military incursion (the USSR) was trying to accomplish by invasion.
Unlikely in itself to seal the overall peace and security of the country but a building block, nonetheless; a battle in the war if you like.

Yes, I'd say that was winnable but that's winnable as opposed to won.

timshatz · 07-02-2009, 05:01 PM

I understand your definition of winnable and gotta be honest, I don't think it's going to happen. It would be nice if it did, but to think it's a country, culture, lifestyle and viewpoint is going to change from that followed for centuries (if not thousands of years) just because a different group thought it up, is folly.

Kharzai stays as long as the Coalition stays, Coalition stays as long as Al Queda stays, Al Queda stays as long as they are a benefit to the Taliban. Taliban stays as long as....they hold both sides of the border? They keep their local villagers under their thumb? They keep the drug trade alive and kicking in the face of Coalition attempts to get rid of it. You name it, A-stan is in the middle of one very convoluted place with a ton of people on all sides throwing their .02 in. Trying to get a hold on it is like trying to grab jello.

I hope your right Colin. Hope they pull it off and the taste of modernity, coupled with Coalition efforts, support of Kharzai, ect, ect, helps turn it towards a more modern outlook. But with the majority of the people illiterate, indifferent and probably looking at the Coalition as just the next round of foriegners bucking up the newest Govt, I definitely have my doubts.

07-02-2009, 10:38 AM	#1
Colin1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,759	UK soldiers patrol 'Little Afghanistan' If I've read it correctly they've captured the feel of the Hindu Kush mountains with the flat, lowland canal-ways of Norfolk British Army builds mock Afghan village in English countryside - CNN.com

07-02-2009, 11:15 AM	#2
Amsel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,732	Interesting idea and a good one if it lends to the implementation on the battlefield of winning hearts and minds. I think the only way to achieve success in Afghanistan is combined action platoons of coalition forces and local militias living together in a village, working together as well as patrolling together. Hopefully programs like this will help coalition forces bridge the enourmous cultural gap. __________________ http://www.northstarnational.com/200...tte/#more-2513

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07-02-2009, 11:49 AM	#3
trackend Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Canvey Island, Essex Posts: 4,029	Cant see any successfull out come from the Afgan conflict. no luck in the 1890's and the same problem now, no held ground so the Taliban dissapear only to return once coalition troops have left.

07-02-2009, 12:11 PM	#4
timshatz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa Posts: 3,446	Agree with you trackend. Problem goes back further. Hell, even Alexander the Great had problems with these people. Tough to understand but shooting at each other is something of a national past time over there. It's what they do. There is no solution. It's tribal, it will go on.

07-02-2009, 12:38 PM	#6
Colin1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,759	The coalition isn't trying to invade Afghanistan that's the key difference between the 19th century debacle and what's happening now. With a concerted hearts and minds drive this is winnable. U.S. launches 'major operation' in Afghanistan - CNN.com

07-02-2009, 02:33 PM	#7
timshatz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa Posts: 3,446	Define "winnable"?

07-02-2009, 05:01 PM	#11
timshatz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa Posts: 3,446	I understand your definition of winnable and gotta be honest, I don't think it's going to happen. It would be nice if it did, but to think it's a country, culture, lifestyle and viewpoint is going to change from that followed for centuries (if not thousands of years) just because a different group thought it up, is folly. Kharzai stays as long as the Coalition stays, Coalition stays as long as Al Queda stays, Al Queda stays as long as they are a benefit to the Taliban. Taliban stays as long as....they hold both sides of the border? They keep their local villagers under their thumb? They keep the drug trade alive and kicking in the face of Coalition attempts to get rid of it. You name it, A-stan is in the middle of one very convoluted place with a ton of people on all sides throwing their .02 in. Trying to get a hold on it is like trying to grab jello. I hope your right Colin. Hope they pull it off and the taste of modernity, coupled with Coalition efforts, support of Kharzai, ect, ect, helps turn it towards a more modern outlook. But with the majority of the people illiterate, indifferent and probably looking at the Coalition as just the next round of foriegners bucking up the newest Govt, I definitely have my doubts.