UK Teachers to stop teaching the Holocaust...

david johnson · 10-07-2007, 05:52 AM

i do not care if they are upset or not. their s*** stinks like everyone else's.
they are exhibiting no decency toward the blind, etc., and must never be coddled to.
their freedom of religion in the usa does not include putting others at risk. that blind person may need to get to the pharmacist via cab.

dj

majorwoody10 · 10-25-2007, 08:35 AM

ive often seen sihks in public places but have never seen a sign of a knife ,are these knives large like a bowie kife or can they carrie a small swiss army knife in their pocket and still be kosher?

Maestro · 10-25-2007, 06:51 PM

Here is the standard size of a kirpan (some can be bigger, some smaller).

Note : The kid pictured is the one who sued the Canadian gouvernment for not allowing him to bear his knife in school.

mkloby · 10-25-2007, 09:46 PM

We had some sikhs in our school growing up - none packed steel.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 10-26-2007, 06:13 AM

Knifes dont belong in school. Ceremonial or not...

Royzee617 · 11-01-2007, 05:53 PM

I agree, everyone should have a choice. My kids do GCSE history and are sick of being told about Hitler. My son was peeved because they don't cover the battles.... it's all BS. Maybe the teachers are sick of it as well year after year...
Don't get me wrong about this but I am fed up of them harping on about the jewish side. My dad lost his parents in Auschwitz and a lot of friends et al who were catholics but it's always about the jews. The nazis wanted to do away with everyone who stood in their way, muslims would probably have been represented in Auschwitz as well.
The upshot is everyone should be more tolerant of our cosmopolitan society. Give and take so we can all get along on this increasingly crowded planet.

Derfman · 12-19-2007, 01:31 PM

This crap is so common these days....

For the record, I'm in the process of changing careers, from USAF Emergency Management to Teaching (Masters degree for teaching History).

Job be damned, I WILL cover the Holocaust, and I will raise holy hell if my boss tells me to stop.

Having said that, this sort of thing CAN be done even in difficult settings...

Case in point, when I was doing my Internship, another older Intern teacher at a different school was suspose to teaching the Holocaust, but he had German exchange students in his class, and was not sure how to proceed. While its easy to just say "teach it", HE had to teach something that could cause those kids some serious discomfort.

What I told him:

#1: DON'T dodge the issue (he was not trying to, but still, he had some concerns, and rightly so).

Then I suggested he make a major theme of his lesson the point that INDIVIDUALS can still make moral decisions in spite of were they might find themselves. I handed him my copy of "The Rape of Nanking", which had the Nazi Ambassador as the unlikely hero, and then there is Oscar Schindler, The Society of The White Rose, and so on.

I spent two days on LOAC (Law of Armed Conflict) in my classes. My personal objective was to get across the idea that there is a difference between a piece subhuman crap that sets off a bomb at a sidewalk cafe (suicide or not.....), and a soldier that shoots at an opposing soldier but hits a civilan in the crossfire. One is to be honored, and the other is not even really human.

For the record, I know that calling someone "subhuman" disturbs some folks, but stop and think about a key point: Is it based on the way the folks are, or on the DECISIONS they make?
When some pervert sets off a bomb at a side walk cafe, or rapes and kills a young child for their sick pleasure, I REFUSE to accept them as human, and I'll say that out loud, and with force. They don't even rate being called "animals".
You DO, however, give them a fair trial, NOT because they "deserve it" (they don't), but because rule by law is important, because WE deserve rule by law. Also, equally important, to be as sure as humanly possible that you have right suspect. Even when it looks REALLY clear cut, law by the numbers, even for the worst offenders.

Derfman · 12-19-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royzee617

I agree, everyone should have a choice. My kids do GCSE history and are sick of being told about Hitler. My son was peeved because they don't cover the battles.... it's all BS. Maybe the teachers are sick of it as well year after year...
Don't get me wrong about this but I am fed up of them harping on about the jewish side. My dad lost his parents in Auschwitz and a lot of friends et al who were catholics but it's always about the jews. The nazis wanted to do away with everyone who stood in their way, muslims would probably have been represented in Auschwitz as well.
The upshot is everyone should be more tolerant of our cosmopolitan society. Give and take so we can all get along on this increasingly crowded planet.

When I've dealt with the holocaust one of the first questions I ask is "How many "people" were murdered in the holocaust? Its sad how often I hear 6,000,000. One point I beat into heads: If you forget the roughly 5,000,000 people that died along side the Jews, how long until the 6,000,000 follow them to forgetfulness?
Jewish organizations should NEVER say 6,000,000 unless they use 11,000,000 in the same breath. If you can forget 5,000,000, forgetting 6,000,000 is not a hard step.

Udet · 12-19-2007, 02:12 PM

Do not forget the ~20 million human beings that died due to bolshevik policies in the USSR.

Derfman · 12-19-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Udet

Do not forget the ~20 million human beings that died due to bolshevik policies in the USSR.

Oh, trust me, I know, and state, that Mr. Hitler was #3 on the 20th century butcher parade.

About the only defense I give Communism is that the theory it is based on a yearning for "fairness", but the theory put into practice was worse than what it replaced. "Fairness" is a dangerous word, even if you should strive for it.

One interesting compare and contrast I've always liked are the transformations to democracy in the U.S., France and Britain. The British was complex, arguably the most peaceful, and over the most time. The U.S. revolution had some violence, but surprisingly mild compared to many civil wars, then and now. The French had an UGLY period of terror and state sponsored murder, then some war, etc, but at the end, after a few starts and stops, they had a proper and free democratic state (for the record, Napoleon is one of those figures in history that I love and hate at the same time (and I often excuse many of his flaws due the situations he was in), but I have nothing but contempt for the terror, regardless of how it came to pass).

Maestro · 12-19-2007, 05:25 PM

For my personnal knowledge, if you put Hitler in third place of the "20th century butcher parade", who is in first and second ?

Derfman · 12-19-2007, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro

For my personnal knowledge, if you put Hitler in third place of the "20th century butcher parade", who is in first and second ?

#1 Mao
#2 Stalin

If you REACH, you can argue for some others, but it starts getting feeble REALLY fast. Rachel Carson for example. You can argue with 100% truth that she had a major part in about 100 million 3rd world malaria deaths, due to her part in banning DDT, but its just not the same. In spite of what some folks say, I don't believe she "intended" that. I believe she "intended" to get less chemicals in the environment, and she was just stupid about it. Mao and Stalin however had a pretty good idea about what they were doing, and were rather direct about it.

Other suggest contenders for the top 3 slots are even feebler (such as western capitalism killing more people than Hitler....)

Njaco · 12-20-2007, 09:37 PM

Derfman, I like your posts. I would have placed Stalin at #1 but whose to quibble. I agree those 3 are the worst.

When did school leave the field of truth and fall into the quagmire of revisionist ideas? It kills me when I hear this crap.

krieghund · 02-08-2008, 12:57 PM

Remember the Head Iman dude from Palestine (previous to 66BC was known as Judea until some roman couldn't pronounce philistine and the name stuck) made a deal with Hitler just as the war was begining to throw in their support for the 3rd Reich and then diappeared for a while when Germany lost. They did a similar thing in kuwait when Sadam rolled in, they fingered all the important kuwatis who were hung, shot or beheaded and then the Iraqis lost and history repeated itself again. I live and work in Saudi and I could fill volumes....by the way gas is only $.41 per gallon here

Adolf Galland Fighter ace · 02-14-2008, 09:48 PM

Well I guess I can say their are no Muslim members here?
Just a thought but by denying them there right to believe if the Holocaust happened is that not the reverse of saying it did happen? or saying their anti Semitic! and racial slurs!, hate, the same as what the Jews have reminded us regularly they face daily. What difference?

OK before I ruffle any ailerons I agree they should put any Muslim on the first boat back to what ever place we decide fit. Islam is a global threat and we don't seem as a people to understand, or just don't care.

I read most posts but if I have repeated any post it was not meant