The Fw 190A-9 of Siegfried Baer, 5.Staffel, II./JG301, in Detail.... - Page 3 - Aircraft of World War II

Erich · 12-30-2007, 09:59 PM

Wayne I will have to go back and look at the I./JG 301 a/c page........where is it ? and Yes I have known about Weiße 7 and Weiße 16 for years

more hidden secrets still left in the bag

E ~

Wayne Little · 12-30-2007, 10:08 PM

Erich, yesterdays Ed West picture links for 30-12 ,doesn't show a code though...bummer! Chances are you probably have pic or pics of this aircraft already? Looks like wide wooden prop blades to me, and outer wing armament not visible either.

Erich · 12-30-2007, 10:10 PM

ok I am going over there and checking for more.......

Wayne Little · 12-30-2007, 10:14 PM

206179 is still there just checked for 12-30 (Part 1)

Erich · 12-30-2007, 10:22 PM

funny I know the seller personally, I may send him a private though am sure the buyer has the items secured, no matter, an A-9 serving on stupid ground attacks against the Soviets in 1945, armed with a underfuselage anti-personal bomb package, the outer guns removed so it was doing high escort duties against US P-51's but the prop is blown and the a/c abandoned

a person like myself does wonder with photo proof of the
a-9 with wooden prop that my cousin just may have had the same..... ?

Wayne Little · 12-30-2007, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

a person like myself does wonder with photo proof of the
a-9 with wooden prop that my cousin just may have had the same..... ?

Well, 206000 has the wooden Prop also but there are a lot of aircraft between this and 206085 and up to 206179 and for that matter neither clearly indicate the blown canopy either. Do you know of other aircraft closer to 085 that have the standard A-9 features?

My preference at this time is to go with the Blown canopy, wide prop and 4 gun wing armament as per my Red 22, but nothing is for sure is it?

One thing further "White 16" is at Ta152 right? as it sure looks like it to me.

Erich · 12-30-2007, 11:28 PM

Wayne I can only assume and my assumption would probably be wrong, right now I have nothing close in the way of Nummers to my cousins rig at the time.

white 16 maybe a Dora 9, the pic is a great one as at far right is a A-9 ? of the JG. I will have to look at the tail mount again to confirm if it is a TA of III. gruppe before application of different paint over the a/c number as it would change to green.

Remember this Jg 301 did not associate itself with the norm of the other Geschwaders when it came to markings, some of them ust do not make any sense like a second gruppe bar in white for Ist gruppe and the second gruppe like bar for III. gruppe, then knowing full well that many III. gruppe a/c never wore a bar or any marking to show what gruppe the a/c were with. II. gruppe many times did not wear a second gruppe bar of red.

so you easily see the toughness of trying to figure out what a/c belong to what unit gruppe

Wayne Little · 12-30-2007, 11:56 PM

Yes, I understand what your saying...sadly
I'm looking at white 16 again...and well I'm willing it to be a Ta but... there should be more wing showing either side..
The tail appears to have an aerial attachment point on top of it unless it is something in the background at just the right spot.
I wish the photo was clearer.
Looking more and more like a D series...

Erich · 12-31-2007, 12:10 AM

do not want to say much more Wayne as it is going to get covered quite well along with Weiße 7 in time

Wayne Little · 12-31-2007, 12:19 AM

Well, I can only hope the next 12 months goes REALLY fast then!

Erich · 12-31-2007, 12:36 AM

Wayne my friend is making a copy of each one of the pics of the I. gruupe A-9 for me ........... now that's service for ya !! then we can go from there as I have a good friend in US intel that has all the camera goodies at his disposal for blowing things like this up for more fun details to ponder.......

Wayne Little · 12-31-2007, 01:02 AM

I look forward to further comments and detail...thanks.

Haztoys · 12-31-2007, 01:48 AM

Erich...You say that (if I've read it right) that a P-51 may have shot your cousin down...Any clue on who the P-51 was or may have been...?

Wayne Little · 12-31-2007, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

do not want to say much more Wayne as it is going to get covered quite well along with Weiße 7 in time

Ah, Erich is this time frame, much shorter than I thought? or is this something else entirely?
Just found this for Jan '08 release.
Luftwaffe im Focus 13...The story of the Ta152 "White 7,5/JG 301"

Erich · 12-31-2007, 11:45 AM

maybe a II. gruppe machine but it was not suppose to have been supplied, even if it had a red gruppe bar like shown in the b/w pics.

Haze yes either 2nd SF or 355th fg which Bill Marshall has covered here on the site on another thread(s) when JG 301 was attacking from the north and east on the B-24 formations and then later the 339th fg came in and finished off the JG 301 Fw's as they headed west to tackle the B-24/B-17's and in hot pursuit were shot down in droves over the hills and fields

E `

12-30-2007, 09:59 PM	#31
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	Wayne I will have to go back and look at the I./JG 301 a/c page........where is it ? and Yes I have known about Weiße 7 and Weiße 16 for years more hidden secrets still left in the bag E ~ __________________ Rip it up !

12-30-2007, 10:10 PM	#33
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	ok I am going over there and checking for more....... __________________ Rip it up !

12-30-2007, 10:22 PM	#35
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	funny I know the seller personally, I may send him a private though am sure the buyer has the items secured, no matter, an A-9 serving on stupid ground attacks against the Soviets in 1945, armed with a underfuselage anti-personal bomb package, the outer guns removed so it was doing high escort duties against US P-51's but the prop is blown and the a/c abandoned a person like myself does wonder with photo proof of the a-9 with wooden prop that my cousin just may have had the same..... ? __________________ Rip it up !

12-30-2007, 11:28 PM	#37
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	Wayne I can only assume and my assumption would probably be wrong, right now I have nothing close in the way of Nummers to my cousins rig at the time. white 16 maybe a Dora 9, the pic is a great one as at far right is a A-9 ? of the JG. I will have to look at the tail mount again to confirm if it is a TA of III. gruppe before application of different paint over the a/c number as it would change to green. Remember this Jg 301 did not associate itself with the norm of the other Geschwaders when it came to markings, some of them ust do not make any sense like a second gruppe bar in white for Ist gruppe and the second gruppe like bar for III. gruppe, then knowing full well that many III. gruppe a/c never wore a bar or any marking to show what gruppe the a/c were with. II. gruppe many times did not wear a second gruppe bar of red. so you easily see the toughness of trying to figure out what a/c belong to what unit gruppe __________________ Rip it up ! Last edited by Erich; 12-30-2007 at 11:31 PM.

12-31-2007, 12:10 AM	#39
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	do not want to say much more Wayne as it is going to get covered quite well along with Weiße 7 in time __________________ Rip it up !

12-30-2007, 10:08 PM	#32
Wayne Little Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Adelaide Sth. Aust. Posts: 12,511	Erich, yesterdays Ed West picture links for 30-12 ,doesn't show a code though...bummer! Chances are you probably have pic or pics of this aircraft already? Looks like wide wooden prop blades to me, and outer wing armament not visible either.

12-30-2007, 10:14 PM	#34
Wayne Little Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Adelaide Sth. Aust. Posts: 12,511	206179 is still there just checked for 12-30 (Part 1)

12-30-2007, 11:56 PM	#38
Wayne Little Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Adelaide Sth. Aust. Posts: 12,511	Yes, I understand what your saying...sadly I'm looking at white 16 again...and well I'm willing it to be a Ta but... there should be more wing showing either side.. The tail appears to have an aerial attachment point on top of it unless it is something in the background at just the right spot. I wish the photo was clearer. Looking more and more like a D series...

12-31-2007, 12:19 AM	#40
Wayne Little Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Adelaide Sth. Aust. Posts: 12,511	Well, I can only hope the next 12 months goes REALLY fast then!

12-31-2007, 12:36 AM	#41
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	Wayne my friend is making a copy of each one of the pics of the I. gruupe A-9 for me ........... now that's service for ya !! then we can go from there as I have a good friend in US intel that has all the camera goodies at his disposal for blowing things like this up for more fun details to ponder....... __________________ Rip it up !

12-31-2007, 01:02 AM	#42
Wayne Little Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Adelaide Sth. Aust. Posts: 12,511	I look forward to further comments and detail...thanks.

12-31-2007, 01:48 AM	#43
Haztoys Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Prescott Arizona USA Posts: 507	Erich...You say that (if I've read it right) that a P-51 may have shot your cousin down...Any clue on who the P-51 was or may have been...?

12-31-2007, 11:45 AM	#45
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	maybe a II. gruppe machine but it was not suppose to have been supplied, even if it had a red gruppe bar like shown in the b/w pics. Haze yes either 2nd SF or 355th fg which Bill Marshall has covered here on the site on another thread(s) when JG 301 was attacking from the north and east on the B-24 formations and then later the 339th fg came in and finished off the JG 301 Fw's as they headed west to tackle the B-24/B-17's and in hot pursuit were shot down in droves over the hills and fields E ` __________________ Rip it up !

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