Dick Bong... Americas Leading Ace.... - Page 3 - Aircraft of World War II

Soundbreaker Welch? · 04-01-2007, 02:39 AM

A brave man.

renrich · 04-01-2007, 04:42 PM

On what date did the P38 fly at over 400 mph?

FLYBOYJ · 04-01-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renrich

On what date did the P38 fly at over 400 mph?

Arguably Feb. 11, 1939 when Ben Kelsey flew the XP-38 coast to coast.
He did the flight in 7 hours citing his average speed was 340 mph. At one point he had tail winds pushing the aircraft at 420 indicated, so people will argue if 400 mph true was ever achieved during this flight but do the numbers - he stopped twice to refuel - once at Amarillo and again at Wright Patterson. If each stop "wasted" one half an hour we're looking at an average speed of over 400 mph and even faster. No one will ever know the exact figures because the XP-38 was destroyed on landing.

I think for the record we could say Feb. 11, 1939, but who knows what was done prior, the flight test program records were very sketchy and the XP-38 only had about 11 hours on it when it crashed.

FLYBOYJ · 04-01-2007, 06:08 PM

More data found....

going through some books the short flight test program was conducted at March AFB between January 27 and Feb 11, 1939. There some bugs discovered during the first 2 or 3 flights but it seemed during that period Kelsey took the XP-38 to 413 mph at 20,000 feet.

renrich · 04-01-2007, 06:40 PM

Thanks Flyboy for the info as I was aware that in May of 1940 the XF4U flew over a measured course at a speed of slightly over 400 mph.

FLYBOYJ · 04-01-2007, 07:30 PM

My Pleasure - it was always a myth when many books published that the F4U was the first US combat aircraft to fly over 400 mph.

Soundbreaker Welch? · 04-02-2007, 05:33 PM

Anybody know of a WWII website that has a lot of Richard Bong related pictures?

Lucky13 · 04-26-2007, 07:42 AM

He was of Swedish ancenstry. His family roots is not too far away from where I'm from.....sweeeet!

And he thought that he was a crap shot....riiiight.

twobit01 · 06-16-2007, 05:10 PM

I understood that Lockheed had ann the engineering done to put Merlin engines in the '38 when the one's they sent to England didn't perform as well as the Brits had hoped. Can you imagine a '38 spinning twin Merlins?!?!

FLYBOYJ · 06-16-2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobit01

I understood that Lockheed had ann the engineering done to put Merlin engines in the '38 when the one's they sent to England didn't perform as well as the Brits had hoped. Can you imagine a '38 spinning twin Merlins?!?!

Lockheed never did any substancial study to re-engine the P-38. It's a myth...

drgondog · 06-16-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

I've gotta say lesofprimus, you're a helluva story teller!
A shame indeed, that after all of the combat he saw, and all of the aircraft he shot down, he was to be killed as a test pilot. Christ!

And he did it all in the P-38, a plane initially favored by enemy pilots as easy pickings.
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm not knocking the Lightning as I haven't researched it much, but it wasn't the aircraft that was inferior so much as the fact that early on, the American pilots didn't really know how to exploit it's capabilities properly. Is that correct, or am I (yet again

) way off base?

It would just be another testiment to Bong's skill and determination! =D>

I may be wrong but I think he was Squadron CO of the first P-80 operational squadron - not a test pilot

Often wrong - rarely uncertain

The problem with the 38 in europe was the turbo and lack of dive brakes - the engines blew up when the oil froze and the 109 and 190 could do their spit S and dive that they couldn't do against the 47 and 51 because the 38 would accelerate into compressibility quickly - when the L model arrived it was a different ball game. Great fighter.

Regards,

Bill

drgondog · 06-16-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Arguably Feb. 11, 1939 when Ben Kelsey flew the XP-38 coast to coast.
He did the flight in 7 hours citing his average speed was 340 mph. At one point he had tail winds pushing the aircraft at 420 indicated, so people will argue if 400 mph true was ever achieved during this flight but do the numbers - he stopped twice to refuel - once at Amarillo and again at Wright Patterson. If each stop "wasted" one half an hour we're looking at an average speed of over 400 mph and even faster. No one will ever know the exact figures because the XP-38 was destroyed on landing.

I think for the record we could say Feb. 11, 1939, but who knows what was done prior, the flight test program records were very sketchy and the XP-38 only had about 11 hours on it when it crashed.

That crash set the program back about 2 years as the Xp38 was hand tooling and the a/c was long delayed getting into flight test. It would possibly been a different air war in europe if the 38 had compressibility tests in 40 or 41 instead of 43.. imagine Regensburg and Schweinfurt in Aug 43 with a fully operational 38 in Southern Germany 9 months earlier than the 38L - expensive but a great airplane

FLYBOYJ · 06-16-2007, 10:20 PM

I remember attending a Lockheed management club meeting around 1982. It was "Kelly Johnson Night" as he was the guest speaker. He said the same thing...

Graeme · 06-17-2007, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

My Pleasure - it was always a myth when many books published that the F4U was the first US combat aircraft to fly over 400 mph.

I've lost count of the number of books that cite the XF4U-1 as the first American warplane to exceed 400mph. Occurring on 1st October 1940 on a flight from Stratford to Hartford, demonstrating a speed of 404mph. It's going to be a hard myth to dispel in aviation literature.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 06-17-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgondog

I may be wrong but I think he was Squadron CO of the first P-80 operational squadron - not a test pilot

Regards,

Bill

According to the Bong Herritage Center he was a test pilot when he crashed in Burbank.

Richard I. Bong WWII Heritage Center

04-01-2007, 02:39 AM	#31
Soundbreaker Welch? Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 1,896	A brave man. __________________ "His motor's conked out!" "What's the differance, they're all Nazis!" "Luke, shut up!" "Fear the hook!" "Oh.....I wanna fly." "You mean the kind that go under water and fly up the stairs?" "What you doing? Oh Nooooo!"

04-01-2007, 06:08 PM	#34
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,867	More data found.... going through some books the short flight test program was conducted at March AFB between January 27 and Feb 11, 1939. There some bugs discovered during the first 2 or 3 flights but it seemed during that period Kelsey took the XP-38 to 413 mph at 20,000 feet. __________________ > I Support Doug Gillis <

04-01-2007, 07:30 PM	#36
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,867	My Pleasure - it was always a myth when many books published that the F4U was the first US combat aircraft to fly over 400 mph. __________________ > I Support Doug Gillis <

04-02-2007, 05:33 PM	#37
Soundbreaker Welch? Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 1,896	Anybody know of a WWII website that has a lot of Richard Bong related pictures? __________________ "His motor's conked out!" "What's the differance, they're all Nazis!" "Luke, shut up!" "Fear the hook!" "Oh.....I wanna fly." "You mean the kind that go under water and fly up the stairs?" "What you doing? Oh Nooooo!"

04-26-2007, 07:42 AM	#38
Lucky13 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 17,331	He was of Swedish ancenstry. His family roots is not too far away from where I'm from.....sweeeet! And he thought that he was a crap shot....riiiight. __________________ JAN "Felicis Tredecim" "I´m going back to the front to relax" "THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT" "Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!" "When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!"

04-01-2007, 04:42 PM	#32
renrich Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado Posts: 3,523	On what date did the P38 fly at over 400 mph?

04-01-2007, 06:40 PM	#35
renrich Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado Posts: 3,523	Thanks Flyboy for the info as I was aware that in May of 1940 the XF4U flew over a measured course at a speed of slightly over 400 mph.

06-16-2007, 05:10 PM	#39
twobit01 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4	I understood that Lockheed had ann the engineering done to put Merlin engines in the '38 when the one's they sent to England didn't perform as well as the Brits had hoped. Can you imagine a '38 spinning twin Merlins?!?!

06-16-2007, 10:20 PM	#43
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,867	I remember attending a Lockheed management club meeting around 1982. It was "Kelly Johnson Night" as he was the guest speaker. He said the same thing... __________________ > I Support Doug Gillis <

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