 | Dick Bong... Americas Leading Ace....| Stories Discuss Dick Bong... Americas Leading Ace.... in the World War II - Aviation forums; A brave man.... |
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04-01-2007, 02:39 AM
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#31 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,479
Country:  | A brave man.
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"His motor's conked out!"
"What's the differance, they're all Nazis!"
"Luke, shut up!"
"Fear the hook!"
"Oh.....I wanna fly."
"You mean the kind that go under water and fly up the stairs?"
"What you doing? Oh Nooooo!" | 
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04-01-2007, 04:42 PM
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#32 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 2,102
Country: | On what date did the P38 fly at over 400 mph? | |
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04-01-2007, 05:43 PM
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#33 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,969
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Originally Posted by renrich  On what date did the P38 fly at over 400 mph? | Arguably Feb. 11, 1939 when Ben Kelsey flew the XP-38 coast to coast.
He did the flight in 7 hours citing his average speed was 340 mph. At one point he had tail winds pushing the aircraft at 420 indicated, so people will argue if 400 mph true was ever achieved during this flight but do the numbers - he stopped twice to refuel - once at Amarillo and again at Wright Patterson. If each stop "wasted" one half an hour we're looking at an average speed of over 400 mph and even faster. No one will ever know the exact figures because the XP-38 was destroyed on landing.
I think for the record we could say Feb. 11, 1939, but who knows what was done prior, the flight test program records were very sketchy and the XP-38 only had about 11 hours on it when it crashed.
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04-01-2007, 06:08 PM
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#34 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,969
Country: | More data found....
going through some books the short flight test program was conducted at March AFB between January 27 and Feb 11, 1939. There some bugs discovered during the first 2 or 3 flights but it seemed during that period Kelsey took the XP-38 to 413 mph at 20,000 feet.
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04-01-2007, 06:40 PM
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#35 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 2,102
Country: | Thanks Flyboy for the info as I was aware that in May of 1940 the XF4U flew over a measured course at a speed of slightly over 400 mph. | |
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04-01-2007, 07:30 PM
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#36 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,969
Country: | My Pleasure - it was always a myth when many books published that the F4U was the first US combat aircraft to fly over 400 mph.
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04-02-2007, 05:33 PM
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#37 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,479
Country: | Anybody know of a WWII website that has a lot of Richard Bong related pictures?
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"His motor's conked out!"
"What's the differance, they're all Nazis!"
"Luke, shut up!"
"Fear the hook!"
"Oh.....I wanna fly."
"You mean the kind that go under water and fly up the stairs?"
"What you doing? Oh Nooooo!" | |
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04-26-2007, 07:42 AM
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#38 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 5,950
Country:  | He was of Swedish ancenstry. His family roots is not too far away from where I'm from.....sweeeet!
And he thought that he was a crap shot....riiiight.
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JAN
"I´m going back to the front to relax"
"THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT"
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant except that Adler is the best!"
"When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!" | |
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06-16-2007, 05:10 PM
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#39 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4
Country: | I understood that Lockheed had ann the engineering done to put Merlin engines in the '38 when the one's they sent to England didn't perform as well as the Brits had hoped. Can you imagine a '38 spinning twin Merlins?!?! | |
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06-16-2007, 06:38 PM
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#40 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Originally Posted by twobit01 I understood that Lockheed had ann the engineering done to put Merlin engines in the '38 when the one's they sent to England didn't perform as well as the Brits had hoped. Can you imagine a '38 spinning twin Merlins?!?! | Lockheed never did any substancial study to re-engine the P-38. It's a myth...
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06-16-2007, 09:58 PM
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#41 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: oregon
Posts: 2,131
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Originally Posted by Nonskimmer I've gotta say lesofprimus, you're a helluva story teller!
A shame indeed, that after all of the combat he saw, and all of the aircraft he shot down, he was to be killed as a test pilot. Christ! 
And he did it all in the P-38, a plane initially favored by enemy pilots as easy pickings.
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm not knocking the Lightning as I haven't researched it much, but it wasn't the aircraft that was inferior so much as the fact that early on, the American pilots didn't really know how to exploit it's capabilities properly. Is that correct, or am I (yet again  ) way off base?
It would just be another testiment to Bong's skill and determination! =D> | I may be wrong but I think he was Squadron CO of the first P-80 operational squadron - not a test pilot
Often wrong - rarely uncertain
The problem with the 38 in europe was the turbo and lack of dive brakes - the engines blew up when the oil froze and the 109 and 190 could do their spit S and dive that they couldn't do against the 47 and 51 because the 38 would accelerate into compressibility quickly - when the L model arrived it was a different ball game. Great fighter.
Regards,
Bill | |
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06-16-2007, 10:02 PM
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#42 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: oregon
Posts: 2,131
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Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Arguably Feb. 11, 1939 when Ben Kelsey flew the XP-38 coast to coast.
He did the flight in 7 hours citing his average speed was 340 mph. At one point he had tail winds pushing the aircraft at 420 indicated, so people will argue if 400 mph true was ever achieved during this flight but do the numbers - he stopped twice to refuel - once at Amarillo and again at Wright Patterson. If each stop "wasted" one half an hour we're looking at an average speed of over 400 mph and even faster. No one will ever know the exact figures because the XP-38 was destroyed on landing.
I think for the record we could say Feb. 11, 1939, but who knows what was done prior, the flight test program records were very sketchy and the XP-38 only had about 11 hours on it when it crashed. | That crash set the program back about 2 years as the Xp38 was hand tooling and the a/c was long delayed getting into flight test. It would possibly been a different air war in europe if the 38 had compressibility tests in 40 or 41 instead of 43.. imagine Regensburg and Schweinfurt in Aug 43 with a fully operational 38 in Southern Germany 9 months earlier than the 38L - expensive but a great airplane | |
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06-16-2007, 10:20 PM
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#43 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,969
Country: | I remember attending a Lockheed management club meeting around 1982. It was "Kelly Johnson Night" as he was the guest speaker. He said the same thing...
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06-17-2007, 07:39 AM
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#44 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ My Pleasure - it was always a myth when many books published that the F4U was the first US combat aircraft to fly over 400 mph. | I've lost count of the number of books that cite the XF4U-1 as the first American warplane to exceed 400mph. Occurring on 1st October 1940 on a flight from Stratford to Hartford, demonstrating a speed of 404mph. It's going to be a hard myth to dispel in aviation literature. | |
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06-17-2007, 09:08 AM
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#45 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,455
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Originally Posted by drgondog I may be wrong but I think he was Squadron CO of the first P-80 operational squadron - not a test pilot
Regards,
Bill | According to the Bong Herritage Center he was a test pilot when he crashed in Burbank. Richard I. Bong WWII Heritage Center
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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