Hans Ulrich Rudel, Tank Destroyer...

[parsifal]

I have no experience to rely on in this discussion, but the camera footage I have seen makes me seriously doubt the accuracy of many of the claims. i am trying to approach this question with an open mind, and would appreciate any opinions from people who think they might have a better understanding. Anecdotally, I know that in Normandy, very few actual tanks were destroyed by air attack, but a great number of support vehicles were. I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Lehr lost maybe 1 or 2 tanks to air attack in July, and something like 100 other vehicles. it was the loss of the support vehicles that did the damage.

Anyway, anyone with better information, please come forward.

[parsifal]

Oh, and to the person who described hartmann earlier in this post with such colourfull language, there are kids who use this post you know, and you should be ashamed of yourself. I hope you learnt your lesson

[lesofprimus]

I use foul language almost daily here.... It aint my job to make the internet a secure huggy-feely place for little kids...

Thats their Mom and Dads jobs...

The only thing Ive ever been ashamed of is my unbelieveably large co*k.........

If foul/dirty language disturbs u parsifal, u may be in the wrong place, but I wont chastise u for calling out that turd up above...

[parsifal]

Not really, but he should not be allowed to denigrate people in my opinion.

Im ex-navy. There is not a word invented that i dont know. i can swear fluently in four languages, so, it aint gonna throw me.....I dont mind swearing when it is warranted, but not when it is just showing a persons ignorance

[lesofprimus]

Good answer....

[Ramirezzz]

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

Thats not true.... Many ground commanders, tankers, and anti-air personnel were well aware of Germanys Leading Ground Attack pilot.... Genanies Propaganda Machine was very efficient, to say the least....The 100k Rubles was a fact.. I have ssen Russian propoganda posters stating this fact...

oh no, not this reward story again Could you show these posters on the forum? Never heard about it.
Vegafox is right - nobody in the RKKA knew Rudel, Hartmann or any of the leading aces of Germans. Radio intelligence knew some of their callsigns, but that was about it.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Then please show your proof that states otherwise.

[Ramirezzz]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Then please show your proof that states otherwise.

Ok Adler, once again - I'm not the one who must prove anything simply because the other opinion isn't backed enough with the facts. Why?
You said in the other thread there're not only Toliver and Constable or Hartmann himself who stated that his (I mean ,Hartmann's) head was rewarded. But to my knowledge, all others who stated this used Toliver and Constable book as an only source. Just like Rudel stated in his book that there was reward on his head, but he hadn't backed his statement with any facts as well.
1) There wasn't any such order of Stalin or of any soviet commander
2)There is no mention of any kind of reward on any german pilot/tanker etc in any of RKKA veteran's memories
3) There's no known fact of rewarding of any axis person whatsoever.
4) the only reward Russian pilots became was the usual reward for destruction of enemy aircraft (100 rubles if my memory serves me correct)
5)As a Russian who is familiar with a history of the RKKA in the WW2 I just can't imagine something like that could ever happen.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Ramirezzz

Ok Adler, once again - I'm not the one who must prove anything simply because the other opinion isn't backed enough with the facts. Why?
You said in the other thread there're not only Toliver and Constable or Hartmann himself who stated that his (I mean ,Hartmann's) head was rewarded. But to my knowledge, all others who stated this used Toliver and Constable book as an only source. Just like Rudel stated in his book that there was reward on his head, but he hadn't backed his statement with any facts as well.
1) There wasn't any such order of Stalin or of any soviet commander
2)There is no mention of any kind of reward on any german pilot/tanker etc in any of RKKA veteran's memories
3) There's no known fact of rewarding of any axis person whatsoever.
4) the only reward Russian pilots became was the usual reward for destruction of enemy aircraft (100 rubles if my memory serves me correct)
5)As a Russian who is familiar with a history of the RKKA in the WW2 I just can't imagine something like that could ever happen.

Well you believe what you wish, once I see something otherwise then I might change my mind.

[lesofprimus]

Cant help u out here Ramirez, but I can say that quite possibly these posters were forged or faked, as they looked too new, not beat up like u would expect a 50 year old poster to look like....

I dont kmow which to believe to be honest, but there is more evidence stating that there was infact bounties posted, as opoosed to ur view.... If there was some solid concrete evidence to ur side, then it would be the deal maker....

Im sure that Stalin himself knew who Rudel was, and his exploits on the front.... German Propganda made sure of that...

[CC90]

Wow, its irritating hearing all these "I hate nazis" "He was a fanatic!". Good for you, you don't like their politics, nobody cares. This is a forum void of your personal politics. btw, Heil Hitler! Yes, I said it, what? are you going to shoot me now? Good god, get over it.

Ah, I registered just to say that. Nice thread btw.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Wow very enlightening. I think we can all sleep better at night now.

[SoD Stitch]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Wow very enlightening. I think we can all sleep better at night now.

Yeah, no kidding . . . boy, that's a load off my mind! I feel so much better now . . . .

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Who was the pilot, Gottfied Dulias?

I have met people from Lockheed and from the USAF who knew Hartman and they had the utmost respect for the man and he was far from a fanatical Nazi!

Flat out, you're either very naive, uneducated or just a plain imbicile.

Joe - I second your assessment. Hartmann and Rall and Priller and Galland commanded the highest respect of the American Fighter Aces. I have never heard anything but utmost respect, particularly for the professionals that formed the cadre of the West German Air force... Galland was excluded because he was a member of the Nazi Party - but so was Rudel.

On your character assessment above I vote for number three

[drgondog]

I'm finally off my fat ass with the jim brooks article on the shuttle mission that ambushed the Stuka Gruppe out in front of Rudel's..