 | Me163 v P-47| Stories Discuss Me163 v P-47 in the World War II - Aviation forums; I posted this in the aviation section but it warrants repeating here in STORIES.
I should tell you (as best ... |
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02-08-2007, 07:27 AM
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#1 | | Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 215
| Me163 v P-47
I posted this in the aviation section but it warrants repeating here in STORIES.
I should tell you (as best I can remember) something that a Sherman tank commander told me many years ago (sorry no real sources here other than his name - Joe Shlickman - he was head of NYC Transit when I knew him).
Joe said that they had entered Germany from Belgium early '45. I do not know where in Germany. He and his tanks were in a wide open area. Overhead they saw a tail-less "jet" that attacked four (4) P-47s at near ground level. The "jet" would loop down and shoot and then loop back up again after each attack, repeating four times and downing ALL FOUR P-47s.
This plane that Joe described is certainly a Me-163. I have Mano Ziegler's book "Rocket Fighter", but there is no mention of this engagement. My father had the Me163C throttle-able motor in his possession after the war (at USAF Burtonwood, England), does anyone know if that plane was ever flown in Combat? This engagement sounds like the pilot may have had throttle control. I will post pic of C two orifice motor in the Spring when I get it from my Father. | 
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02-08-2007, 07:53 AM
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#2 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,136
Country:  | To be honest I dont think what he saw was a Me-163. The Me-163 saw combat against bombers but the reason that I do not think that he saw it against the P-47s is because it did not have the range or time in the air to go searching for fighters.
The Germans shot the rocket plane up against bomber formations that they new were there. The Me-163 Komet only had a range of 43km and a duration of flight of about 8 to 10 minutes.
It simply did not have the time to go around and look for fighters. Plus after its rocket motor burned out it needed to be at alltitude to glide back down to land and it could not do so at low alltitudes.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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02-08-2007, 01:48 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,682
| Not saying it was a Me-163 but I can't think of any other tail-less LW fighter.
__________________  We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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02-08-2007, 01:52 PM
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#4 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,136
Country: | Neither can I...
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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02-08-2007, 02:14 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Texas!
Posts: 623
Country:  | Pictures of the motor will be very interesting, Ching...Marking my calendar to check back!!! | |
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02-08-2007, 02:15 PM
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#6 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,565
Country: | it doesn't make any sense really so probably a Me 262. The KG(J)'s 51 and 54 looked for anything low down especially any MT and troop concentrations to strafe and bomb with their 262A-2a's. A good friends dad witnessed a dual attack from 1 lone 262 : dropped it's bombs and came around to strafe the troops with it's 3cm's. ~ he noted laughingly we ran in all directions
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02-08-2007, 02:36 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,682
| If its was a Me-262 I think he would've noticed the two engines, I think, but perhaps it could've been a He-162, but the tail is rather noticable on this bird... The only thing that ruins the scenario of it being a Me-163 is the fact that he describe it climbing and attacking four times, the Me-163 didn't have enough fuel for this and a trip home - it was meant to hit the bombers once and then glide down.
Its a mystery really...
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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02-08-2007, 02:41 PM
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#8 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,565
Country: | I think it is pure mis-identification that is all. when it is severely chaotic you do not pay well attention of details
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shhhh ........ es ist ein Geheimnis | |
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02-08-2007, 03:09 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,141
Country:  | Nice post total there Erich! LOL
I don't think it would of been a ME163 either. The plane was hard enough to fly and line up a slow moving bomber, it would of been nearly impossible to line up and shoot down 4 fast moving dodging sliding jinking P-47. Not to mention the time required to actually achieve these kills is more than the 163 had fuel.
IMO
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02-08-2007, 03:10 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Berlin (Kreuzberg)
Posts: 1,429
| Quote: |
Joe said that they had entered Germany from Belgium early '45. I do not know where in Germany. He and his tanks were in a wide open area. Overhead they saw a tail-less "jet" that attacked four (4) P-47s at near ground level. The "jet" would loop down and shoot and then loop back up again after each attack, repeating four times and downing ALL FOUR P-47s.
| i wouldn´t rule out the possibility that this has to do with -163 operating in january or february 45. The records are low and not consistent of I and II Gruppe of JG 400. A slovenian collegeu & friend of mine certainly has more on this issue, I will have to ask him.
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02-08-2007, 03:28 PM
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#11 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,136
Country: | Yes that would be interesting.
I too think it was probably a 262 and just misidentified in the chaos of battle.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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02-08-2007, 03:42 PM
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#12 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,565
Country: | Rudi Opitz told me in 1945 they did nothing but move and try and hunt down fuel for the remainder of the rocket interceptors of II. gruppe as the Soviets were on their heels ........
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02-08-2007, 08:41 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,682
| Its more likely a Me-262 than a Me-163, but who knows...
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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02-08-2007, 09:26 PM
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#14 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,369
Country: | Exaclty Soren, who knows... No one really ever will so...
__________________  "This Was a Fight to The Death.... He's Out to Kill Me, and I'm Gonna Get Him..."
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02-09-2007, 04:27 AM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK (atm Pretoria, South Africa)
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Country:  | Exactly Soren. Is the any chance that it could of been an He-163 as that would sort of explain the tailless theory?
__________________  "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts"
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