Navy on Yorktown: Fix it or junk it - Aircraft of World War II

beaupower32 · 10-22-2009, 11:22 AM

MOUNT PLEASANT -- The aircraft carrier Yorktown played a heroic role in numerous battles for the Navy, from the time it was built in the 1940s until it was decommissioned in 1970.

But as the longtime centerpiece of the floating maritime museum at Patriots Point, the inactive warship has been slowly losing a silent, corrosive and very costly war with nature.

Officials at the military attraction estimated Tuesday that it would cost more than $100 million to dry dock and repair the ship's deteriorating steel hull. It's money that South Carolina does not have.

The long-simmering problem came to a boil as the Patriots Point Development Authority discussed a letter it received from the Department of the Navy about the deteriorating condition of the donated ship.

In short, the Navy has given the state agency two options for dealing with the Yorktown: Either put the vessel in dry dock so its rusting hull can be fixed or submit a plan to dispose of the aging ship.

"Disposal is not in our vocabulary," said Dick Trammell, executive director of the authority.

Trammell said the early estimates for dry docking the Yorktown run between $100 million and $120 million. And that figure does not include the millions of dollars in dredging and other work that would be required to prepare the ship for a move from its longtime berth.

"If anyone would like to write us a check, the bank is open," Trammell said.

He said the ship is not in danger of sinking -- it rests in 26 feet of mud -- and that the oil that is still on board poses no immediate environmental threat. He said the main area of structural concern is near the Yorktown's bow, just above the waterline.

"It is definitely a long-term problem," he said.

Letter from the Navy
A letter from the Department of the Navy reguarding the care of water-borne vessels donated by the Navy (PDF)
The deferred maintenance expenses facing the Yorktown and ships at other naval museums raise some difficult and emotionally charged questions that can't be put off much longer, said John Hagerty, chairman of the development authority.

Hagerty said it remains to be seen "what the will of the people is to keep this memorial going."

"I think the will of the people will always be to honor our veterans," he said Tuesday. "But the question is, How much are we willing to pay to honor them?"

The Yorktown
Some background on the ship:

• The 10th aircraft carrier to serve in the Navy.

Length: 888 feet.

• Built in 16 1/2 months in Newport News, Va. Commissioned on April 15, 1943

. • Participated significantly in the Pacific Offensive that began in late 1943 and ended with the defeat of Japan in 1945. Received the Presidential Unit Citation and earned 11 battle stars for service in World War II. Much of the 1944 Academy Award-winning documentary "The Fighting Lady" was filmed aboard the Yorktown.

• Recovered the Apollo 8 astronauts and space capsule in December 1968.

• Decommissioned in 1970 and placed in reserve. Towed from Bayonne, N.J., to Mount Pleasant in 1975.
Patriots Point, which has borrowed about $9 million to dry-dock and repair leaks to the destroyer Laffey, is not alone in dealing with wear and tear of saltwater on in-water attractions. Trammell said the Navy has put most other museums that house inactive military ships "on notice" about overdue maintenance.

In a letter to Hagerty dated June 18, Rear Adm. J.P. McManamon of the Naval Sea System Command said that as part of the Navy's 1974 agreement to donate the Yorktown to Patriots Point, the state assumed "all ownership costs," including renovations, repairs and disposal.

McManamon also said the Navy is prohibited by law from providing financial assistance for any of its donated ships. The letter did not cite any penalties should Patriots Point fail to comply with the request for written details of a repair or disposal plan.

A spokeswoman for the Naval Sea Command could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

A formal response to McManamon's letter, which was sent with other correspondence to state and federal lawmakers, is expected to be ready next week.

"What they're saying is, place the Yorktown in dry dock," Hagerty told board members at a meeting on board the ship Tuesday. "What I'm saying is, we can't do that right now."

The Yorktown has not been placed in dry dock for maintenance since it was towed to Patriots Point about 34 years ago.

Mount Pleasant acting Mayor Kruger Smith, attending his last meeting as a member of the development authority, described the unfunded mandates spelled out by the Navy as "absurd." Other board members agreed.

Vassili Zaitzev · 10-22-2009, 11:32 AM

Shoot, I hope they can put her in drydock, hate to see the ship go. One question, was is the navy not allowed to give money to any of the ships it donates.

Messy1 · 10-22-2009, 11:35 AM

Wow, that is a tough situation. I hope they save it and can raise enough money to place it in drydock. I have a special place for the Yorktown. Growing up, I was a boy scout, and my troop took a week long trip that where we stayed on the Yorktown for a few nights. It was a awesome experience. We basically had the run of the ship at night after hours. I'd hate to see it get to the point where it is too far gone to save. We were told that the bottom decks were flooded, and it was sunk down in the seabed. I'm surprised any oil at all was left on board.

Thorlifter · 10-22-2009, 12:21 PM

Bad time and bad economy to ask for 100 million + to fix a museum, but I hope they do.

beaupower32 · 10-22-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vassili Zaitzev

One question, was is the navy not allowed to give money to any of the ships it donates.

Patriots Point, which has borrowed about $9 million to dry-dock and repair leaks to the destroyer Laffey, is not alone in dealing with wear and tear of saltwater on in-water attractions. Trammell said the Navy has put most other museums that house inactive military ships "on notice" about overdue maintenance.

In a letter to Hagerty dated June 18, Rear Adm. J.P. McManamon of the Naval Sea System Command said that as part of the Navy's 1974 agreement to donate the Yorktown to Patriots Point, the state assumed "all ownership costs," including renovations, repairs and disposal.

McManamon also said the Navy is prohibited by law from providing financial assistance for any of its donated ships. The letter did not cite any penalties should Patriots Point fail to comply with the request for written details of a repair or disposal pla

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 10-22-2009, 12:30 PM

I too would hate to see the Yorktown go. I have a special place for it as well. I used to visit her on many occasions as a child, when I lived in S. Carolina.

timshatz · 10-22-2009, 12:37 PM

Ain't good. Most municipalities are broke or deep in debt. Not as though the constituents are any better.

Don't be suprised if more of this happens. Don't see a happy ending to this one unless they can get Microsoft or some such to sponsor the refurbishment.

Colin1 · 10-22-2009, 01:21 PM

Surely the US Navy own dry docks?
Couldn't they then create a historical engineering department, staffed by experienced USN Engineering Officers and ratings and make it a two-year posting or something? Draft in USN Engineering apprentices/cadets for work experience under the supervision and guidance of the permanent staff and get the boat back on its feet, so to speak.

No extra capital outlay, the Navy personnel are getting paid anyway and I bet sums of money they'd enjoy something like that, working on something that's woven into their history.

On a much grander scale obviously, this would largely mirror how the RAF operates its historical aircraft under the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.

When you're all out of resources, you've got to be resourceful.

Messy1 · 10-22-2009, 01:50 PM

I am wondering if the 100 million includes removal and replacement back in it's foundation, and transportation to and from the dry dock. Is it better to have it sunk in the mud vs. having it float in the ocean?
Anyone know pros and cons for each?

wheelsup_cavu · 10-22-2009, 02:31 PM

I think with the state of the economy she will end up being scrapped.
I don't see people coughing up 100 to 120 million to fix her.

The only way the Navy could fix it would be to recommision her and then decomission her again.
I don't see the Navy doing that for an obsolete ship either.
They have to many other budgeted items that need the money more than the Yorktown.

Wheels

syscom3 · 10-22-2009, 02:39 PM

Kind of odd the the navy has no appreciation of their own history.

Messy1 · 10-22-2009, 02:43 PM

I guess it is like an adoption. The new adoptive parents are responsible for all costs, and the birth parents do not want any part I guess of financial support or they would have kept the 888 ft kid!

Lucky13 · 10-25-2009, 09:42 AM

Would hate to see her go!

ToughOmbre · 10-25-2009, 11:17 AM

A couple of years ago they pulled the USS Intrepid out of her berth in NYC and did a $60 million + overhaul/restoration. Was even the subject of a documentary on the History Channel.

With all of the questionable dollars earmarked in the various "stimulus" packages being passed by congress, they should find the money to fund the preservation of our American military heritage.

Unfortunately, that heritage does not seem to be very important, or has gotten lost, in the current political climate. Problem is, many people today, epecially young people, have never even heard of the Yorktown.

If the Yorktown is allowed to "die", what great ship will be next? The Missouri, the New Jersey?

TO

joy17782 · 10-25-2009, 11:53 AM

I hope to god someone would do something for a wonderful part of are history. maybe someone will get a fund going .

10-22-2009, 11:22 AM	#1
beaupower32 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Charleston, South Carolina Posts: 721	Navy on Yorktown: Fix it or junk it MOUNT PLEASANT -- The aircraft carrier Yorktown played a heroic role in numerous battles for the Navy, from the time it was built in the 1940s until it was decommissioned in 1970. But as the longtime centerpiece of the floating maritime museum at Patriots Point, the inactive warship has been slowly losing a silent, corrosive and very costly war with nature. Officials at the military attraction estimated Tuesday that it would cost more than $100 million to dry dock and repair the ship's deteriorating steel hull. It's money that South Carolina does not have. The long-simmering problem came to a boil as the Patriots Point Development Authority discussed a letter it received from the Department of the Navy about the deteriorating condition of the donated ship. In short, the Navy has given the state agency two options for dealing with the Yorktown: Either put the vessel in dry dock so its rusting hull can be fixed or submit a plan to dispose of the aging ship. "Disposal is not in our vocabulary," said Dick Trammell, executive director of the authority. Trammell said the early estimates for dry docking the Yorktown run between $100 million and $120 million. And that figure does not include the millions of dollars in dredging and other work that would be required to prepare the ship for a move from its longtime berth. "If anyone would like to write us a check, the bank is open," Trammell said. He said the ship is not in danger of sinking -- it rests in 26 feet of mud -- and that the oil that is still on board poses no immediate environmental threat. He said the main area of structural concern is near the Yorktown's bow, just above the waterline. "It is definitely a long-term problem," he said. Letter from the Navy A letter from the Department of the Navy reguarding the care of water-borne vessels donated by the Navy (PDF) The deferred maintenance expenses facing the Yorktown and ships at other naval museums raise some difficult and emotionally charged questions that can't be put off much longer, said John Hagerty, chairman of the development authority. Hagerty said it remains to be seen "what the will of the people is to keep this memorial going." "I think the will of the people will always be to honor our veterans," he said Tuesday. "But the question is, How much are we willing to pay to honor them?" The Yorktown Some background on the ship: • The 10th aircraft carrier to serve in the Navy. Length: 888 feet. • Built in 16 1/2 months in Newport News, Va. Commissioned on April 15, 1943 . • Participated significantly in the Pacific Offensive that began in late 1943 and ended with the defeat of Japan in 1945. Received the Presidential Unit Citation and earned 11 battle stars for service in World War II. Much of the 1944 Academy Award-winning documentary "The Fighting Lady" was filmed aboard the Yorktown. • Recovered the Apollo 8 astronauts and space capsule in December 1968. • Decommissioned in 1970 and placed in reserve. Towed from Bayonne, N.J., to Mount Pleasant in 1975. Patriots Point, which has borrowed about $9 million to dry-dock and repair leaks to the destroyer Laffey, is not alone in dealing with wear and tear of saltwater on in-water attractions. Trammell said the Navy has put most other museums that house inactive military ships "on notice" about overdue maintenance. In a letter to Hagerty dated June 18, Rear Adm. J.P. McManamon of the Naval Sea System Command said that as part of the Navy's 1974 agreement to donate the Yorktown to Patriots Point, the state assumed "all ownership costs," including renovations, repairs and disposal. McManamon also said the Navy is prohibited by law from providing financial assistance for any of its donated ships. The letter did not cite any penalties should Patriots Point fail to comply with the request for written details of a repair or disposal plan. A spokeswoman for the Naval Sea Command could not be reached for comment Tuesday. A formal response to McManamon's letter, which was sent with other correspondence to state and federal lawmakers, is expected to be ready next week. "What they're saying is, place the Yorktown in dry dock," Hagerty told board members at a meeting on board the ship Tuesday. "What I'm saying is, we can't do that right now." The Yorktown has not been placed in dry dock for maintenance since it was towed to Patriots Point about 34 years ago. Mount Pleasant acting Mayor Kruger Smith, attending his last meeting as a member of the development authority, described the unfunded mandates spelled out by the Navy as "absurd." Other board members agreed. __________________ The four elements: Earth, Air, Water, and Fire. Of these, I call your attention to two: Air and Fire. Though it is your privilege to live in the air, you will die by fire.

10-22-2009, 11:32 AM	#2
Vassili Zaitzev Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Stafford Springs, Connecticut Posts: 2,221	Shoot, I hope they can put her in drydock, hate to see the ship go. One question, was is the navy not allowed to give money to any of the ships it donates. __________________ "Never was so much owed by so many to so few"- Winston Churchill.

10-22-2009, 11:35 AM	#3
Messy1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ankeny, Iowa Posts: 1,411	Wow, that is a tough situation. I hope they save it and can raise enough money to place it in drydock. I have a special place for the Yorktown. Growing up, I was a boy scout, and my troop took a week long trip that where we stayed on the Yorktown for a few nights. It was a awesome experience. We basically had the run of the ship at night after hours. I'd hate to see it get to the point where it is too far gone to save. We were told that the bottom decks were flooded, and it was sunk down in the seabed. I'm surprised any oil at all was left on board. __________________ Bryon O P-61 Black Widow-Mistress of the Night! "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." George S. Patton "Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government." "Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

10-22-2009, 12:21 PM	#4
Thorlifter Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 4,345	Bad time and bad economy to ask for 100 million + to fix a museum, but I hope they do. __________________

10-22-2009, 12:30 PM	#6
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,150	I too would hate to see the Yorktown go. I have a special place for it as well. I used to visit her on many occasions as a child, when I lived in S. Carolina. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

10-22-2009, 12:37 PM	#7
timshatz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa Posts: 3,446	Ain't good. Most municipalities are broke or deep in debt. Not as though the constituents are any better. Don't be suprised if more of this happens. Don't see a happy ending to this one unless they can get Microsoft or some such to sponsor the refurbishment.

10-22-2009, 01:21 PM	#8
Colin1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,759	Surely the US Navy own dry docks? Couldn't they then create a historical engineering department, staffed by experienced USN Engineering Officers and ratings and make it a two-year posting or something? Draft in USN Engineering apprentices/cadets for work experience under the supervision and guidance of the permanent staff and get the boat back on its feet, so to speak. No extra capital outlay, the Navy personnel are getting paid anyway and I bet sums of money they'd enjoy something like that, working on something that's woven into their history. On a much grander scale obviously, this would largely mirror how the RAF operates its historical aircraft under the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight. When you're all out of resources, you've got to be resourceful.

10-22-2009, 01:50 PM	#9
Messy1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ankeny, Iowa Posts: 1,411	I am wondering if the 100 million includes removal and replacement back in it's foundation, and transportation to and from the dry dock. Is it better to have it sunk in the mud vs. having it float in the ocean? Anyone know pros and cons for each? __________________ Bryon O P-61 Black Widow-Mistress of the Night! "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." George S. Patton "Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government." "Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

10-22-2009, 02:31 PM	#10
wheelsup_cavu Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Corona, California Posts: 1,534	I think with the state of the economy she will end up being scrapped. I don't see people coughing up 100 to 120 million to fix her. The only way the Navy could fix it would be to recommision her and then decomission her again. I don't see the Navy doing that for an obsolete ship either. They have to many other budgeted items that need the money more than the Yorktown. Wheels __________________ Cheers Wheelsup_cavu Wheels's Photos - Time lapse build of an F/A-18 Super Hornet - Lock N' Load

10-22-2009, 02:39 PM	#11
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,277	Kind of odd the the navy has no appreciation of their own history. __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

10-22-2009, 02:43 PM	#12
Messy1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ankeny, Iowa Posts: 1,411	I guess it is like an adoption. The new adoptive parents are responsible for all costs, and the birth parents do not want any part I guess of financial support or they would have kept the 888 ft kid! __________________ Bryon O P-61 Black Widow-Mistress of the Night! "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." George S. Patton "Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government." "Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

10-25-2009, 09:42 AM	#13
Lucky13 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 15,121	Would hate to see her go! __________________ JAN "Felicis Tredecim" "I´m going back to the front to relax" "THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT" "Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!" "When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!"

10-25-2009, 11:17 AM	#14
ToughOmbre Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Jersey Shore Posts: 3,230	A couple of years ago they pulled the USS Intrepid out of her berth in NYC and did a $60 million + overhaul/restoration. Was even the subject of a documentary on the History Channel. With all of the questionable dollars earmarked in the various "stimulus" packages being passed by congress, they should find the money to fund the preservation of our American military heritage. Unfortunately, that heritage does not seem to be very important, or has gotten lost, in the current political climate. Problem is, many people today, epecially young people, have never even heard of the Yorktown. If the Yorktown is allowed to "die", what great ship will be next? The Missouri, the New Jersey? TO __________________ *“Let's get Enterprise* and Hornet turned into the wind."**

10-25-2009, 11:53 AM	#15
joy17782 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: logan ohio Posts: 279	I hope to god someone would do something for a wonderful part of are history. maybe someone will get a fund going .

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