Pierre H. Clostermann, Leading French Ace

[lesofprimus]

Originally Posted by Janus

this is a proof that this is not a forum for educated people and what you only do is fuel and encourage the rest of the world , not only the French , to HATE you , and you will pay it in the future

This is about the only thing that stood out.... The "we'll pay for it in the future" part is extremely hilarious.... Are the French going to sell Nuclear Munitions to the "bad guys" in the future oh Nostradamus???

I think its a fuc*ing joke that this retarded argument has gone on this long, the moreso because its a Russian and a Brit having it... Janus, ur sh!t is as weak as is the country of France... Mostly blah blah blah... U will not find anyone here who has pity for ur small inconsequential feelings, or the fact that u were attempting, weakly I might add, at making this a racial thing... Ur a frog lover and a Ruskie, which aint sayin much pal...

I myself could never stand the sight of a woman with armpit hair and hairy legs, but hey, to each his own...

Now the Russian people as a whole I admire and honor for the sacrifices and hardships they had to survive throughout Communism... That being said, heres a few funnies for u to choke on with ur morning croissant....

[lesofprimus]

Originally Posted by Janus

this is a proof that this is not a forum for educated people

Oh, and by the way, this little quip gets u another official warning for being a smartass knowitall frog lover.... Now ur up to 8 warning points outta 10...

Almost time to say bye bye...

[Gnomey]

Originally Posted by Janus

Bullshit the French in clearly inferior numbers had the front stabilized in 1917 thanks to a hard fough war , they fought very well actually given their numerical inferiority ,and their aviator were better than yours ... and it's not the Marne river you ignorant FOOL , it's the episode of the Taxis of the Marne whe,nthey manage to get Hundred Thousand of soldiers in time to block the Germans . Ignorant .



Yes i know , you always attack the weak and divided people through history , recent history is no different , that 's why the Germans called you "Neidische Albion" , the cowards that attack only the indigens and weak , and that never won a major won Alone , always through alliances , had you had Land borders with Germany , you would have been destroyed even easily .
But indeed you can flatter your national ego with having defeated the Scots , the Irish , and the Indians etc.. Well done !

By the way , STFU , i ain't French , I'm Russian and proud to be , married to a French and living in Paris , i own that nationality now , and let me say you one thing , without my people , you' d speak German today , and We Kicked their F.. arse in case you don't know and more than once , just like the French crushed them in early 19th Century for more than 15 years , not just 4 , and defeated Otto in the 12th and later on gave them other major defeats , the first German victory against France occured 9 century after France was born ...




Not that bigger , and your indutrialization was made possible thanks also to French scientists and German scientist , 30 years in nothing in history , especially at the time , besides , it never prevented them to pioneers and good inventors in science , philospphy and military material (or is the inventor of Nobel , raidocativity finder , penicilin , or Pasteur , Lavoisier English ? you moron , there are about thousands case to quote , you don't equal them in that regards , especially the Germans , the French contribution to Western civilisation is at least equalt to yours ....)



You never won any war alone you mediocre moron , you got your butt kicked in the Hundred Wars , you won a few battles against a divided France , once they united , they kicked your arse badle at Formigny and Castillon , you got owned , under Louis XIV , they kicked your arse again , everything you tried failed against them at the time , their country was the most powerful militarily , under Napoleon they kicked you arse again for 2 decades , until you got whole Europe to find under your banneer and they lost more because of lack of troops , unity and support , their troups were exhausted to fight against the whole Europe throughout 15 years , same happened to the Germans in WWII , may i remind you that we Russians were the first to defeat him convincingly and ALONE .

By the way don't mention WWI , because your contribution next to France and USA is ridiculous , not to mention that this war was started Mainly because of you British scum politicians , Germans were far more motivated to beat you than the French , the French were closer that's all .

It's funny that some Nazi nostalgic in this forum side with you , you were their worst ennemy by the way , but today many simple minded get interested and in love with Nazi Germany when they actually don't know **** about what really NSDAP was , only thing they like in it is race hierarchy , miltarist and warmongers ideals , not talking about their anti-Jew racism , but their political stance , especially against the Albions hiding on tehir island waiting for Mother USA to save them , apparently have been forgotten .




You brought back SHITE , you FLED in 1940 , your soldiers were afraid , whilst the French were rushing to the front , you the English were trying to embark at Calais and Dunkerk .... the French fought with you , side by side , you didn't , you fled ...


By the way , might you understand in your small mind , that in France before 1940 , about 40% of the population was right-wing and pro-German , and were actually trying to institute a dictature of this sort , you have to take this into consideration when you speak about surrender , if you have the slightest idea of what is it to suffer a modern war on your own territory and have troops that are unmotivated and divided by politics .

It's not my country btw , what is laughable is your arrogance based on the fact that strangers saved your ass , now you take advantage of it to insult other people that are friendly toward yours . By the way one of this stranger was USA , and France send thousands of soldiers under Lafayette to help Americans get their indepedance , and sold many huge territories to them , today you can see the Statue of Liberty , a France gift to America .


Anyhow , i don't answer to your other xenophobic but especially ignorant BS , you have the same understanding of history as a 6 years old , so i leave it to you to have a selctive memory and puke some incomplete notions of history that suits your hate .

What is really incredible , the real point of this thread , is that external people will see how this forum and his moderator give me warnings , while they let someone openly spray his ignorance , that doesn't even know basics of Aviation history , but especially openly shout his racists stance s with real impunity , this is a proof that this is not a forum for educated people and what you only do is fuel and ecnourage the rest of the world , not only the French , to HATE you , and you will pay it in the future , but you'll probably not see it nor have the ability to understand it . I leave with this last message , there is no interest whatsoever to speak with people like this .

Cheers moron .

Haha, talk about bullshit, most of this post isn't worth replying too (so I won't bother with it - be like talking to a brick wall - except more dense and hard to get through too). I will respond to the first part though, the French did not stablise the front in 1917 by themselves, there were over 1 million British and colonial troops not to forget the first drips and draps of the Americans coming over to fight. Also being in trenches it is really easy to defend and really hard to attack - look at the casualties (especially the first day of the Somme).

We are not the ones who are ignorant you are...

[plan_D]

As it's only natural that I get involved;

For your knowledge , the French Air Force did extremely well in WWII , they shot down more German planes in the air than they actually lost , more than 70% of the planes they lost was on the ground , read the figures ... .

The French had 740 modern fighters and 140 bombers worth a mention. The fighter numbers were bolstered by 350 aircraft from Britain; which is a total of 1,090 fighters. This is not including the reserve aircraft and British Air Forces in France.

France apparently lost 757 aircraft during the German western offensive, how many were on the ground I can admit that I do not know. The Allies deployed around 1,500 aircraft all together with reserves of 3,000. They were inferior numercially on the front-line, but not overall.

The fact that most of the Luftwaffe numbers were made up with bombers, as they were the offensive arm, shows that even if the French achieved a kill:loss ratio in their favour it is hardly surprising. Because most likely the Luftwaffe would have achieved a fighter kill:loss ratio in their favour.

They had to face a full strength Luftwaffe with inferior planes and huge numerical inferiority , i am not talking about the small Afrikakorps detachment that made British forces flee for 1 thousands kilometers while in overwhelming numerical superiority ... or the few dozens of submarines that nearly made you starve ... talking about full strength German army , not just small and poorly trained garnisons on the normandie shores with a couple of planes ... In 1940 , Germany is the strongest army in the world , in 1941 they are knocking at Moscow doors , from Crimea , Greece , Africa to France and Norway .. they conqueered all Europe .. after that German army is scattered everywhere and far weaker .

The French did not face the full strength of the Luftwaffe. The only people that did were the RAF during the Battle of Britain. Even the VVS or USAAF over Germany did not face the full strength of the Luftwaffe.

The Afrika Korps were not alone in Africa, they had the Italians too. Which made the Axis powers in North Africa out-number the British and Commonwealth. If you are attempting to defend your country, do not resort to false accusations of mine.

The "few dozen" U-boats that you mention that nearly starved Great Britain are not a dim light in the British history of World War II. Those "few dozen" were actually 1,500 U-boats deployed by Germany.

The full strength of the Wehrmacht did not attack France. Germany had 5.4 million men in the Wehrmacht and over 2,500 tanks - this did not attack France. It was around 3 million men and 2,000 tanks, which the Allies met with 3.3 million and 5,800 tanks (3,100 were modern - 1,500 were FT-17s). The French had, in the north, 2.2 million men so I have no idea where the magical number of 800,000 comes from - unless you're talking solely about the Maginot Line garrison. And this doesn't include the 7,500 artillery pieces the Germans had with enough ammo for six weeks (how ironic) which was out-numbered by the Allied 14,000 artillery pieces!

You make fun of French , but their biggest sin was to have land borders with Germany , and not safe on an island , had it been your people , it would have been even worse , seeing how British troops were fleeing at Calais in June 1940 , more concerned about going back to UK than help the French to fight .... and France wasn't as vast and unconqueerable as USSR , nor as much populated and militarised (Stalinism ) to sustain a long war effort .

Now, this assault on Britain is uncalled for and shows ignorance. Great Britain abandoned a losing situation in France; the government had the sense to retreat to a defendable position. We weren't in Calais, it's amazing you don't know that, but in Dunkirk - and we saved 140,000 French and Belgian troops as well as our own.
I should point out now that the BEF was there to help you, but our priority was to defend our nation; not yours. French soil is French concern, British soil is British concern. Too right the British were retreating - France had failed to hold their flank, lost Sedan and continually lost the plot to leave the British forces encircled and on the brink of destruction.

Germany as a totalitarian regime , could field 7 millions men to attack USSR , France as a democracy where people are free , could field at best 1 million men in 1940 , it was also the first time the Blitzkrieg tactics were used .

Germany eventually fielded 10.8 million men against the Soviet Union. But only 5 million crossed the border in 1941. France on May 10th, 1940, fielded over 6 million men, 2.2 million served against Germany during the invasion. "Blitzkrieg" was used in Poland before France, as well as in the Spanish Civil War before France.

I have to point out also that one-to-one French armour was superior to their German counter-parts. The French Army was the second largest in the world, and the largest in western Europe. Their tank force was also the second largest, and air force was third largest. The world leader was the Soviet Union in armour, army and air force. France were second in army and armour, while Germany was second in air force.

The deluded vision that France could not field more than a million men is laughable - if France had such a small military, I wonder why Churchill constantly thanked the stars that such a large French military stood in Germanys way.

But Janus, learn the facts before spouting your mouth. Your arrogance and ignorance is pathetic. If you had simply corrected lanc on the French ace matter; I would be happy, and wouldn't have had to waste time correcting your grave errors concerning your OWN countries history.

If I can at all be bothered, I may mention how France DESTROYED the Knights Templar or that French Knights were the greatest in Europe, but were bested by English peasents wielding Longbows at Agincourt.

[plan_D]

And that last post was beyond pathetic. It makes me wonder, if the English were so poor when it came to military matters - why did they never get invaded after 1066? Before the little French man claims that William I was French, let us all be reminded that William I was a Norman - who are Vikings that landed in "Normandy" and settled.

This poor and pathetic nation called England must have had some luck if it ruled the world for almost 500 years. And it's amazing that he, the ignorant baffoon, claims that England only fought natives (by the way, the Scots were considered a power in the Middle-Ages, so its no laughing matter when England managed to subdue them - the Romans couldn't!) since England has fought every nation in Europe - and won.

One major point though, England has never won a war on its own. Funny that, I don't remember anyone helping when the Royal Navy sunk the combined Spanish and French Armada in the Channel in 1588 ! YOU JACKASS!

And you're from Russia - CRIMEA oh how we love to mention the smashing defeat big 'ole might Russia felt in the Crimean war. How did it feel to have Sevestapol smashed to pieces by English and French guns!?

And the Crusades - the dear third Crusade led by the English - everyone else in Europe backed out!

Ever heard of the Black Prince, J ANUS!? Well Medieval France did 'cos he sacked most of it! Maybe the Crecy Campaign comes to mind?! The siege of Calais?! The Reims Campaign after which England ruled a third of France, and were paid FOUR TIMES the amount GDP of France?! Where were English allies there!? What about the Poiters campaign that crippled French army?!

Most of your excuse, french division, came from the fact that the Black Prince kept sacking your bloody country - and the French peasents were p*ssed off that the French government weren't doing anything to stop him!? Well, what could they?! Everytime you met Edward III in open battle he slaughtered the French like pigs!

What about Henry V - Harfleur or Agincourt!? Treaty of Troyes - Henry V heir to French throne.

Be realistic - and learn your history. England fought many-many-many great powers to become what it did. So don't delude yourself with visions of rifle armed men fighting natives with mango fruits and sharped orange peel!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Janus is a prick. He will come back and read all these posts about him and go and cry to his mommy, sulk in some vodka and realize he screwed up.

Janus, eat a bowl of dick.

[Smokey]

Ages ago I read an article by Pierre Clostermann in which he relates how his squadron lost six out of eight tempests in thirty five seconds while attacking a Luftwaffe airfield late in the war. Ouch

Extract from The Big Show bt Pierre Clostermann DFC

Leading a flight of 8 when attacking German airbase 1945.

The plan was for 8 Typhoons with rockets to go in 1st and engage the flack followed by a Tempest beat up of the airfield

The Typoons couldnt make it

"Smell of flowers!" Came Bay Adams voice mockingly in the earphones. Flack! Christ what Flack! The entire surface of the airfield seemed to light up from 20mm and 37mm guns. There must have been at least 40 of them. A carpet of white puffs spread out below us and the black puffs of the 37mm stood out in regular strings of 8.

What flack! Physical fear is the most terrible thing man can suffer- my heart leapt to my mouth, I was covered with sweat, with sticky, clammy sweat. My clenched toes swam in my boots.

We dived desprately into the smoke...explosions and tracer to left and right crossing over and under us..bangs round our wings and sinister dazzling flashes.

We were a mile from the perimeter 150 feet from the ground. Men were running hither and thither.

"Lower for christs sake" I yelled hysterically. The broad expanse of grass, carved by the grey runways tilited up before my eyes and rushed towards me. We were doing over 450mph. 1st a hanger a browser then the messerschmitts perched clumsily on thier narro undercarts, about 30 of them, with men crouching under the wings. To far to the left out of my line of fire.

A group of a dozen Arados loomed up in my sight. I fired, I fired frantically, my thumb jammed on the button. my shells formed a ribbon of explosion worming its way between the Arados, climbing up the fuselage, hitting the engines...smoke..one of the planes exploded just as I was over it, and my Tempest was tossed up by the burning gust. A Tempest touched the ground and the fuselage bounded up in a shower of fragments of smashed eings and tail planes.

More hangers in fromt of me. I fired a 2nd burst-it exploded on the galvenised iron doors and the steel stanchions.

"Look out Red 2" My no 2 was coming straight for me, out of control at terrific speed. His hood had gone. At 470 mph 20 yards to my right he went smack into a flack tower cutting it in two underneath the platform,

A wooden frame blew into the air. A cluster of men hanging on to a gun collapsed into space. The Tempest crashed on the edge of the field, furrowing through a group of little houses, with a terrific flash of light the engine had come adrift in a whirlwind of flames and fragments scattered in the sky.

It was all over...almost..1...2..3..the tracer bullets were pursuing me..I lowered my head and hunched myself up behind my rear plating..12..13...14..I was going to cheat... a salvo of 37 burst so close that I only got the flash of the explosions without seeing the smoke...splinters hailed down on my fuselage...19..20! I pulled the stick back and climbed straight up into the sky. The flack kept on.

I glanced back towards Schwerin, just visible under my tail plane. A 1000 feet below a Tempest was climbing in zig zags, the tracers stubbonly pursuing him. Fires near the hangers, columns of greasy smoke, a firework display of expolding magnesium bombs. The lone Tempest caught me up, waggled its wings and formed line abreast.

"Hallo Filmstar aircraft reform south of target, angels 10"

"Hallo Pierre, Red 3 here. You know, I think the rest have had it!"

Surely Bay couldnt be right! I scanned the 360 degrees of the horizon, and the teriffic pyramid of flack bursts above Schwerin right up inot the clouds, hanging in the still air. No one.

13.04 hours. We had attacked at 13.03 hours. The nightmare had lasted perhaps 35 seconds from the beginning of our dive and we had lost 6 of 8 aircraft.

And we complain about flack - HEXUS.community discussion forums

[ndicki]

I don't think Janus likes us.

[ndicki]

No, I really don't think he likes us.

[ndicki]

I suppose it's his right, though.

[ndicki]

When you think about it...

[ndicki]

I mean, we don't seem to be able to help it, really. I'm most terribly ashamed...



The Battle of Agincourt

If we are mark'd to die, we are enowMap
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

-- Wm. Shakespeare, King Henry V

[ndicki]

On the other hand, maybe not.