Sunderland vs. eight Ju 88's

[comiso90]

Originally Posted by Aggie08

I remember one story, a B-17 who got real cozy with a big Japanese flying boat- can't remember which one. The two shot the hell out of each other, but I think the Fort won. I'm sure someone can elaborate.

I'd like to hear more!

I like this thread!

The crew of the large lumbering aircraft are often relegated to a passive role of defense and survival. It's very interesting to hear about unconventional exploits.

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[Glider]

I am pretty sure that in the Med some Baltimores (IMHO one of the underated bombers of the war) were used as long range fighters to intercept German transports due to their 4 x HMG front guns.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Further to Njaco's post, weren't USAAF B-26 Marauders dispatched to engage Me 323 Gigants over the Med in that Theatre of Operations, much to the discomfiture of the 323s? Don't have dates/units to hand.

I am aware of (apocryphal?) tales of RAF Coastal Command Liberators dogfighting with FW200 Condors over the Atlantic. Now, that would have been a sight to behold!

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Downwind.Maddl-Land

Further to Njaco's post, weren't USAAF B-26 Marauders dispatched to engage Me 323 Gigants over the Med in that Theatre of Operations, much to the discomfiture of the 323s? Don't have dates/units to hand.

I am aware of (apocryphal?) tales of RAF Coastal Command Liberators dogfighting with FW200 Condors over the Atlantic. Now, that would have been a sight to behold!

It certanly happened. on 17th Aug 1943, a US Liberator was lost in combat with a FW200 which was also destroyed in the action

[comiso90]

Originally Posted by Glider

It certanly happened. on 17th Aug 1943, a US Liberator was lost in combat with a FW200 which was also destroyed in the action

fascinating!

[comiso90]

Originally Posted by Downwind.Maddl-Land

Further to Njaco's post, weren't USAAF B-26 Marauders dispatched to engage Me 323 Gigants over the Med in that Theatre of Operations, much to the discomfiture of the 323s?

At night?

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[Glider]

Also I found an example of a Sunderland that had a battle with a FW200. The FW badly damaged the Sunderlands hydraulics with his first burst but the Sunderland made it home.

[Aggie08]

Originally Posted by comiso90

I'd like to hear more!

I like this thread!

The crew of the large lumbering aircraft are often relegated to a passive role of defense and survival. It's very interesting to hear about unconventional exploits.

.

Lt. Tsuneo Hitsuji*- Shootout Between H6K5 Mavis and B-17

This seems to be the story I remember. It is very neat in that it is told from the Japanese perspective. It's a pretty brutal fight to say the least.

[comiso90]

Thanks Aggie- great story. it was funny hearing the B-17 referred to as "FAST"

In a situation like that, what were the gunners trained to shoot at? I would think the priorities would be:

1.The enemy cockpit
2.other gunners
3.engines
4.ANYTHING

[Aggie08]

It's amazing how hard air-to-air gunnery is, when two huge planes actually miss on a few passes. I can only guess at how hard hard it is to hit a fighter. I guess aim at the cockpit? I'm not really sure, but it seems like a "softer" and more crucial part of the plane than one of the engines.

[comiso90]

yeah.. I'd like to hear the American version of the account... i find it hard to believe they ran out of ammo...

If so, those boys needed some discipline.

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[net_sailor]

Originally Posted by comiso90

In a situation like that, what were the gunners trained to shoot at? I would think the priorities would be:

1.The enemy cockpit
2.other gunners
3.engines
4.ANYTHING

Shooting at enemy crew can't give fast effect, cause their stands are usually armoured. The humans' profile isn't a too big target in comparision aircraft size also (hard to hit and see the results).

My priorities would be other a vital parts: enginies and fuel tanks (big and soft targers). It could give fast visual effects (smoke, fire or fuel leaks) - very important for gunners also from psychological reasons.

[Aggie08]

Good point, we knew the Japanese didn't have self-sealing fuel tanks.

[comiso90]

Originally Posted by net_sailor

Shooting at enemy crew can't give fast effect, cause their stands are usually armoured. The humans' profile isn't a too big target in comparision aircraft size also (hard to hit and see the results).

My priorities would be other a vital parts: enginies and fuel tanks (big and soft targers). It could give fast visual effects (smoke, fire or fuel leaks) - very important for gunners also from psychological reasons.

I don't disagree but if I'm a waste gunner in a B-17 along side a Mavis and I was watching the jap gunner walk tracers towards me.... I'm going to do anything i can to take him out.

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[Pisis]

Interesting stories. I've read a lot similar stories about Wellingtons flown by Czechoslovak pilots of No. 311 (Czechoslovak) Squadron RAF.