Armour plate identification - JG51

rhinogobius · 08-08-2008, 05:31 AM

Hi, I have a piece of armour plate photos attached which i am researching. So far i beleive it relates to the marked kills of some part of JG51 during battle of france / britain. What I would like to know is what type of armour is it (head / engine) and the likely plane it's from. Also if anyone can help with the kills and pilots of JG51 recorded on the armour. We have had this for over 30yrs now and thought it was about time we researched it.

HoHun · 08-08-2008, 08:00 AM

Hi Rhinogobius,

From Tony Wood's list of Luftwaffe claims:

Code:

Date	Rank	Fname	Lname	Unit	JG	Claimed	Location	Time	Claim.	St_Claim	RLM	Prim_Source	Conf.	Sec_Source	Notes
14.08.1940 00:00	Ofw.	Arthur	Dau	7.	JG 51	Hurricane	NW Dover	14.00	6	86	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
14.08.1940 00:00	Hptm.	Walter	Oesau	7.	JG 51	Hurricane	NW Dover	13.59	14	85	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
14.08.1940 00:00	Oblt.	Josef	Priller	6.	JG 51	Spitfire	NW Dover	13.45	10	79	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
31.07.1940 00:00	Fw.	Ernst	Buder	4.	JG 51	Spitfire	N. Dover	16.56	2	66	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
31.07.1940 00:00	Oblt.	Josef	Fözö	4.	JG 51	Spitfire	NW Dover	16.55	5	65	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	74 Sq.
31.07.1940 00:00	Ltn.	Erich	Hohagen	4.	JG 51	Spitfire	W. Dover	16.58	4	67	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	74 Sq. damaged
31.07.1940 00:00	Hptm.	Horst	Tietzen	5.	JG 51	Spitfire	Dover	16.55	12	64	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	74 Sq.
31.07.1940 00:00	Ltn.	Heinrich	Tornow	4.	JG 51	Spitfire	W. Dover	-	3	68	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
13.07.1940 00:00	Hptm.	Horst	Tietzen	5.	JG 51	Hurricane	SE Dover	19.30	6	46	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
13.07.1940 00:00	Oberstlt.	Theo	Osterkamp	Stab	JG 51	Spitfire	Dover	-	2	2	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
13.07.1940 00:00	Fw.	Ernst	Buder	4.	JG 51	Hurricane	SE Dover	19.26	  1st	44	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
13.07.1940 00:00	Oblt.	Josef	Fözö	4.	JG 51	Hurricane	10km W. Cap Gris Nez	19.30	4	45	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
13.07.1940 00:00	Oblt.	Josef	Fözö	4.	JG 51	Hurricane	10km W. Cap Gris Nez	19.26	3	43	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
13.07.1940 00:00	Fw.	Hans	John	4.	JG 51	Hurricane	SE Dover	-	3	47	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
13.07.1940 00:00	Ltn.	Heinz	Tornow	4.	JG 51	Hurricane	SE Dover	-	2	48	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
13.07.1940 00:00	Oblt.	Arnold	Lignitz	9.	JG 51	Spitfire	S. Dover	18.25	7	59	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
02.06.1940 00:00	Fw.	Arthur	Haase	6.	JG 51	Spitfire	SW Dünkirchen	21. Nov	2	10	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	Hurricane?
02.06.1940 00:00	Oblt.	Josef	Priller	6.	JG 51	Curtiss	SW Dünkirchen	21.15	3	11	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock	
23.05.1940 00:00	Fw.	Heinz	Bär	1.	JG 51	Hurricane	Béthune	11. Okt	3	33	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock
23.05.1940 00:00	Fw.	Josef	Oglodek	1.	JG 51	Hurricane	Béthune	11. Okt	  1st	34	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock
23.05.1940 00:00	Oblt.	Hermann-Friedrich	Joppien	1.	JG 51	Dewoitine	Béthune	16.28	2	37	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock
23.05.1940 00:00	Hptm.	Douglas	Pitcairn	1.	JG 51	Dewoitine	Arras	16.32	3	38	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock
23.05.1940 00:00	Fw.	Karl	Schmid	1.	JG 51	Dewoitine	Arras	-	3	39	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock
11.05.1940 00:00	Uffz.	Fritz	Schreiter	3.	JG 51	Hurricane	Rotterdam	18. Mrz	  1st	12	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock
11.05.1940 00:00	Oblt.	Heinrich	Krafft	3.	JG 51	Hurricane	Rotterdam	18. Aug	  1st	13	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock
11.05.1940 00:00	Ltn.	Ernst	Terry	Stab I.	JG 51	Hurricane	Rotterdam	18. Nov	  1st	14	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock
11.05.1940 00:00	Ltn.	Ernst	Terry	Stab I.	JG 51	Hurricane	Rotterdam	18.15	2	15	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock
11.05.1940 00:00	Oblt.	Heinrich	Krafft	3.	JG 51	Hurricane	Rotterdam	18.16	2	16	yes	OKL		Prien/Bock

If you'd include pilots from other units with possibly matching claims, the list obviously would be much longer.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Micdrow · 08-08-2008, 10:24 AM

Interesting rhinogobius, that almost looks like the rear canapay armor for a Bf-109 or Fw-190. Will compair more when I get home though Ive never seen one with emblems or kill markings on it.

rhinogobius · 08-08-2008, 12:15 PM

thanks for list of claims although doesn't match this kill list very well so mystery deepens as am sure whoever took the time to hand paint these kills would have got dates right - my own guess is that it would be down to just a few pilots out of JG 51 group given small number of kills recorded for that time - would be great to which ones.

Airframes · 10-06-2008, 10:39 PM

This is probably not much help, but, looking at the shape, it looks like a piece of armour plate from the bulkhead, immediately behind the pilot's head, from a Hurricane. The 'slot' at the bottom would be where the 'Sutton' seat harness passed through. I'm not sure about this, but the shape at the top looks right, as well as the screw holes. Might have narrowed things down for you I hope?

slaterat · 10-07-2008, 12:10 AM

That definitely looks like the head plate from a Hurricane. I'll check with some pictures I have.

Slaterat

rhinogobius · 10-07-2008, 03:37 PM

Thanks for taking time to respond. My research has moved on and your right it is Hurricane head armour. I have managed to track many of the kills on this board and pictures and stories behind them which is great, have attached famous pic of Bob Tuck showing the armour as it would have been.

Micdrow · 10-07-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaterat

That definitely looks like the head plate from a Hurricane. I'll check with some pictures I have.

Slaterat

Nice job there Slaterat

Airframes · 10-07-2008, 04:53 PM

Love it when a plan comes together! Thought I might be right, and checked some of my pics/plans. But you confirmed it first. Sad thing is, on my old Land Rover about ten years ago, I had some strength added for off-roading, including a beefed-up recovery tow point. Only found out when it was too late, the mounting plate was cut from some scrap - turned out to be from the complete plate, including seat back armour, from a Hurricane. Could have cried!!!