Boulton Paul Defiant retractable fairing question - Aircraft of World War II

illustratedman · 01-07-2009, 01:18 PM

I'm in the middle of making my 3d model of the Defiant and find myself a bit stuck when it comes to the fairing between the turret and the canopy/cockpit. See illo below.

Does anyone have any pix of what the interior of this area looks like and the layout/workings of the hydraulic setup? From what I can piece together there appears to be a single actuator thingy and some sort of large box. But a diagram or interior photo would be really handy.

I have managed to get hold of the mushroom book on the defiant, which is turning out to be as invaluable as everyone told me it would be

and I have the big cutaway drawing of the Defiant, but its not much help when it comes to this particular part of the aircraft.

cheers
alex

Venganza · 01-07-2009, 02:59 PM

Cracking nice model, old mate! What program (programme) are you doing it in? I'm a bit of a 3D artist myself, trying to get up the courage to model a plane in 3D graphics, instead of plastic. In terms of finding a picture for you, I'll give it a try. You might PM Micdrow - he's the patron saint of manuals and schematics around here. If he can't find something, hopefully I can find something. Good luck on your model!

Venganza

illustratedman · 01-07-2009, 03:48 PM

Cheers mate will drop him a line. The plane model is pretty rough at the moment, still a bit slow when it comes to aircraft modelling - this is only really the second proper aircraft model I've attempted, already progress is faster than my first model so it's obviously one of those things you have to keep practising at. Using Cinema 4D 10.5 for my modelling and rendering, will UV map and texture in Bodypaint and Photoshop.

Have just created an album for progress pix of the model - although the pix have already been posted in another thread about 303 mgs, so far just 3 test renders of the gun turret which I'm working on seperately. Not sure if posting this url will work but here goes.

Warbird Photo Album - Renders of Boulton Paul type A turret

cheers alex

Venganza · 01-07-2009, 06:01 PM

Wow! Beautiful turret! I may have to get me Cinema 4D (right now I've got trueSpace 7.6, Bryce 6.1, DAZ Studio 2.2, and Gimp 2, which is like a free Photoshop). I searched my sources, but unfortunately I couldn't find any details about the rectractable turret fairing. You might try these chaps, if you haven't already - they built a complete replica of a Defiant(!):

Contacts
The Boulton Paul Association:

for general enquires about the Heritage Centre:
eMail: bpheritagecentre@btopenworld.co.uk

Postal Address

The Boulton Paul Association
Boulton Paul Heritage Project
c/o Smiths Aerospace Actuation Systems
Wobaston Road
Wolverhampton.

For specific detailed enquiries please contact one of the following:

the Association Chairman, Cyril W Plimmer:
25d, Bilbrook Road
Codsall
Wolverhampton WV8 1EU
01902 843118
eMail: cyrilplimmer@hotmail.com

the Association Archivist, Les Whitehouse:
32, Cherrybrook Drive
Penkridge
Stafford ST19 5EB
01785 712052

Good luck!

Regards,
Venganza

Airframes · 01-07-2009, 06:53 PM

Great info there Venganza. Didn't know a replica had been built. Is it 'real' or a 3D model? Sounds one hell of a project!
Hope you find what you need, I'Man.

Venganza · 01-07-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airframes

Great info there Venganza. Didn't know a replica had been built. Is it 'real' or a 3D model? Sounds one hell of a project!
Hope you find what you need, I'Man.

Thank you, Airframes! From the pictures on the website (The Boulton Paul Association), this definitely appears to be a mockup. The covering is metal, but the structure is wooden. Still a beatiful mockup - looks like the real thing.

Venganza

Airframes · 01-07-2009, 10:51 PM

Thanks again mate. Just had a look at the link you posted; they've done a fantastic job on the mock-up. It is, to all intents and purposes, real! OK, so it's a wooden frame, but it appears to be constructed like the original, and is covered in the correct metal panels, so it is real enough, and good enough to stand alongside the only real one, in the RAF Museum.
The place is only about an hours drive from me, and I didn't know about it - I'll have to make a point of visiting it! Thanks again for the info, much appreciated.
Terry.

illustratedman · 01-08-2009, 06:11 AM

Cheers Vengaza. I have checked the BP assoc out already - v nice full size replica - will come in handy when I need to work out where all the rivetting patterns go.

The turret is not finished/on hold until the copy of the air ministry manual arrives from Hendon. I got as far as I could with the reference I had but there are big gaps in my knowledge so have had to guesstimate certain parts. Either the manual will fill in the gaps and I can redo the bits which are wrong or it won't in which case I'll have to show the turret from camera angles that hide the dodgy bits

Cinema 4D is very easy to get into and the rendering is very nice although in recent years the company has started making the software modular so you end up having to buy (and keep upgrading) modules for advanced rendering, hair, character rigging etc. I have been looking at buying Modo for modelling aircraft/other vehicles as a lot of the really good aircraft renders I've seen lately are from people who switched from C4D to modo as they report it's much better at modelling complex forms like wings and fuselages. Luxology > What is modo?

I'll keep updating the album as the model progresses and post the final renders/illustrations when the job is done.
cheers
alex

GeoffW · 10-31-2009, 09:09 AM

Hi illustratedman

I just stumbled upon this thread, excellent looking WIP Defiant, would be interested to see how you are progressing with this model. Any updated screenshots please ?

Geoff

illustratedman · 11-11-2009, 05:40 AM

Hi Geoff, sorry for delay in replying I've been offline for a while due to being rewired/redecorated so only just got your message. No updates right now as I have had to put the project on the back burner in favour of more urgent paying jobs - however it is not forgotten, there is still a lot of texturing to do and work on pilot and airgunner - I will be posting more images once I can get back to it.

cheers
alex

01-07-2009, 02:59 PM	#2
Venganza Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Earth Posts: 386	Cracking nice model, old mate! What program (programme) are you doing it in? I'm a bit of a 3D artist myself, trying to get up the courage to model a plane in 3D graphics, instead of plastic. In terms of finding a picture for you, I'll give it a try. You might PM Micdrow - he's the patron saint of manuals and schematics around here. If he can't find something, hopefully I can find something. Good luck on your model! Venganza __________________ "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever." -Spinal Tap Last edited by Venganza; 01-07-2009 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Additional information.

01-07-2009, 06:01 PM	#4
Venganza Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Earth Posts: 386	Wow! Beautiful turret! I may have to get me Cinema 4D (right now I've got trueSpace 7.6, Bryce 6.1, DAZ Studio 2.2, and Gimp 2, which is like a free Photoshop). I searched my sources, but unfortunately I couldn't find any details about the rectractable turret fairing. You might try these chaps, if you haven't already - they built a complete replica of a Defiant(!): Contacts The Boulton Paul Association: for general enquires about the Heritage Centre: eMail: bpheritagecentre@btopenworld.co.uk Postal Address The Boulton Paul Association Boulton Paul Heritage Project c/o Smiths Aerospace Actuation Systems Wobaston Road Wolverhampton. For specific detailed enquiries please contact one of the following: the Association Chairman, Cyril W Plimmer: 25d, Bilbrook Road Codsall Wolverhampton WV8 1EU 01902 843118 eMail: cyrilplimmer@hotmail.com the Association Archivist, Les Whitehouse: 32, Cherrybrook Drive Penkridge Stafford ST19 5EB 01785 712052 Good luck! Regards, Venganza __________________ "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever." -Spinal Tap Last edited by Venganza; 01-07-2009 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Additional information.

01-08-2009, 06:11 AM	#8
illustratedman Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 19	Cheers Vengaza. I have checked the BP assoc out already - v nice full size replica - will come in handy when I need to work out where all the rivetting patterns go. The turret is not finished/on hold until the copy of the air ministry manual arrives from Hendon. I got as far as I could with the reference I had but there are big gaps in my knowledge so have had to guesstimate certain parts. Either the manual will fill in the gaps and I can redo the bits which are wrong or it won't in which case I'll have to show the turret from camera angles that hide the dodgy bits Cinema 4D is very easy to get into and the rendering is very nice although in recent years the company has started making the software modular so you end up having to buy (and keep upgrading) modules for advanced rendering, hair, character rigging etc. I have been looking at buying Modo for modelling aircraft/other vehicles as a lot of the really good aircraft renders I've seen lately are from people who switched from C4D to modo as they report it's much better at modelling complex forms like wings and fuselages. Luxology > What is modo? I'll keep updating the album as the model progresses and post the final renders/illustrations when the job is done. cheers alex Last edited by illustratedman; 01-08-2009 at 06:17 AM.

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01-07-2009, 03:48 PM	#3
illustratedman Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 19	Cheers mate will drop him a line. The plane model is pretty rough at the moment, still a bit slow when it comes to aircraft modelling - this is only really the second proper aircraft model I've attempted, already progress is faster than my first model so it's obviously one of those things you have to keep practising at. Using Cinema 4D 10.5 for my modelling and rendering, will UV map and texture in Bodypaint and Photoshop. Have just created an album for progress pix of the model - although the pix have already been posted in another thread about 303 mgs, so far just 3 test renders of the gun turret which I'm working on seperately. Not sure if posting this url will work but here goes. Warbird Photo Album - Renders of Boulton Paul type A turret cheers alex

01-07-2009, 06:53 PM	#5
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,030	Great info there Venganza. Didn't know a replica had been built. Is it 'real' or a 3D model? Sounds one hell of a project! Hope you find what you need, I'Man.

01-07-2009, 10:51 PM	#7
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,030	Thanks again mate. Just had a look at the link you posted; they've done a fantastic job on the mock-up. It is, to all intents and purposes, real! OK, so it's a wooden frame, but it appears to be constructed like the original, and is covered in the correct metal panels, so it is real enough, and good enough to stand alongside the only real one, in the RAF Museum. The place is only about an hours drive from me, and I didn't know about it - I'll have to make a point of visiting it! Thanks again for the info, much appreciated. Terry.

10-31-2009, 09:09 AM	#9
GeoffW Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1	Hi illustratedman I just stumbled upon this thread, excellent looking WIP Defiant, would be interested to see how you are progressing with this model. Any updated screenshots please ? Geoff

11-11-2009, 05:40 AM	#10
illustratedman Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 19	Hi Geoff, sorry for delay in replying I've been offline for a while due to being rewired/redecorated so only just got your message. No updates right now as I have had to put the project on the back burner in favour of more urgent paying jobs - however it is not forgotten, there is still a lot of texturing to do and work on pilot and airgunner - I will be posting more images once I can get back to it. cheers alex