Fw 190A-8 decal mystery - Aircraft of World War II

Kingscoy · 08-02-2009, 06:49 AM

During the recovery of a Fw190A-8, shot down during Market Garden/ pilot safe, we found this cowling part. The stencil for us is unknown....at least, we have never seen it before during other excavations. Its also something I can not find back in our books we have about the 190.
Does anyone know it? Or is/was it perhaps a personal emblem of the pilot.
Help is very much appreciated!!!

Greetings from Holland,
Sander

Micdrow · 08-02-2009, 08:52 AM

Interesting Sanders, off hand Im not for sure. Maybe a personal emblem???

lesofprimus · 08-02-2009, 09:03 AM

Not too many fellas had personal emblems on the cowling, so I doubt that is what it is.... Also, its alittle bit average in design, ie not fancy or inspiring so to speak... Stencils usually were not used to make personal emblems either, and the pic above is clearly a stencil...

Maybe Erich can shine some light....

A4K · 08-05-2009, 10:24 AM

Do you know which part of the cowling it's from? It's position might aid identification.

Kingscoy · 08-05-2009, 12:41 PM

Hi A4K,

It is from the left hand side of the MG131 cowling. I have looked at photo's of 190's over and over again but didn't found a single pic with this decal....or something that looks similar.
Just thinking........We also found the switchboard for the Wgr 21 system(see pic), maybe it has something to do with that.
We just don't know with this one(yet).

Cheers,
Sander

Capt. Vick · 08-05-2009, 04:00 PM

There are some real knowledgable Luftwaffe guys here and some who appear to specialize on the Fw 190 so just wait and you will have your answer and then some. My two cents is that it's not a personal marking, but a technical marking that says something like "this engine uses such-and-such a lubricant/fuel/water-methanol injection" or maybe it indicates a hoist point under the cowl or and access somewhere near that location on the cowling. Just guesses really.

Regards, Jim

Erich · 08-05-2009, 04:27 PM

you say you found a weapons system for the Br 21cm ? don't think that would of been carried during the Market garden fiasco unl;ess this old beater was from JGr 10.

very few Fw 190A units were even in the air battles for M.G.

Stab./JG 2
Stab/JG 26
I. u. II./JG 26
II./JG 6

looks like a special stencil to me not a private wappen, but sorry have no clue on what it is.

Airframes · 08-05-2009, 04:46 PM

I think I've seen a similar marking before somewhere, but can't remember where. I'll start searching, to see if I can find anything. I have a feeling it might be related to the airctaft datum line, or weight/balance. Can you let us know the approximate dimensions?

herman1rg · 08-05-2009, 04:48 PM

Looks like a warning stencil or perhaps a notification of filler cap or similar underneath?

A4K · 08-05-2009, 07:43 PM

I agree with Erich it's a special stencil... maybe 'D/MW' (BMW 801D, MW 50) or similar?

Kingscoy · 08-06-2009, 05:53 AM

Yes...could be. We thought of that one too. The stencil is approx 15cm in diameter.
And I agree with Erich that this 190 did not have the weaponsystem for the Wgr 21 during Market Garden in place.

It would be great if a photo or drawing could prove that this stencil is for the engine/ fuel specifications.
Then it could help us in our search in identifying this a/c and its pilot. Our archive research points in the direction of JG 6, but we are absolutly not sure! The eyewitness couldn't remember the exact day....and then it becomes pretty difficult.

Regards,
Sander

Kingscoy · 08-06-2009, 06:10 AM

P.s
Sorry I was a little bit over enthousiast....the stencil is exact 6.3cm in diameter.

cheers,
S.

beaupower32 · 08-06-2009, 11:14 AM

Is there any other markings on the aircraft like a Number or even possibly a Werk Number. That might help out alot.

The small yellow ring on the rear part of the MG access cover indicates a BMW 801 D-2 engine with MW50 boost. Im still looking for pictures, but this is the info I have found so far.

Here is a picture of a 190 with the marking. Still looking for one up close though.

Kingscoy · 08-06-2009, 12:33 PM

Hi beaupower32,

No, no werknummer so far found on the wreackage parts we excavated. You can find more photo's of what we found during this recovery at the link below.
Fw190A-8 recovered at Groessen

The photo you posted indeed shows the stencil on the specific location.....thank you very much!! It seems that our mysterie is solved.
Do you know if this stencil was applied regularly or not, because of the many photo's I looked at not one 190showed this stencil?

Cheers,
Sander

beaupower32 · 08-06-2009, 02:15 PM

Im still lookin pretty hard, but hontestly I dont think it was applied to every single aircraft.

08-02-2009, 08:52 AM	#2
Micdrow “Archive” Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 4,852	Interesting Sanders, off hand Im not for sure. Maybe a personal emblem??? __________________ "Valor does not mean Hero."

08-02-2009, 09:03 AM	#3
lesofprimus Minister of Whoopass Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi Posts: 17,506	Not too many fellas had personal emblems on the cowling, so I doubt that is what it is.... Also, its alittle bit average in design, ie not fancy or inspiring so to speak... Stencils usually were not used to make personal emblems either, and the pic above is clearly a stencil... Maybe Erich can shine some light.... __________________ My IL2 Video Tribute to My Grandfather: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk

08-05-2009, 04:00 PM	#6
Capt. Vick Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 159	I'm pretty sure you will get an answer shortly. There are some real knowledgable Luftwaffe guys here and some who appear to specialize on the Fw 190 so just wait and you will have your answer and then some. My two cents is that it's not a personal marking, but a technical marking that says something like "this engine uses such-and-such a lubricant/fuel/water-methanol injection" or maybe it indicates a hoist point under the cowl or and access somewhere near that location on the cowling. Just guesses really. Regards, Jim __________________ Jack Burton: I don't get this at all. I thought Lo Pan- Lo Pan: Shut up, Mr. Burton! You are not brought upon this world to get it!

08-05-2009, 04:27 PM	#7
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	you say you found a weapons system for the Br 21cm ? don't think that would of been carried during the Market garden fiasco unl;ess this old beater was from JGr 10. very few Fw 190A units were even in the air battles for M.G. Stab./JG 2 Stab/JG 26 I. u. II./JG 26 II./JG 6 looks like a special stencil to me not a private wappen, but sorry have no clue on what it is. __________________ Rip it up !

08-05-2009, 04:46 PM	#8
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,062	I think I've seen a similar marking before somewhere, but can't remember where. I'll start searching, to see if I can find anything. I have a feeling it might be related to the airctaft datum line, or weight/balance. Can you let us know the approximate dimensions? __________________

08-05-2009, 10:24 AM	#4
A4K Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,224	Do you know which part of the cowling it's from? It's position might aid identification.

08-05-2009, 04:48 PM	#9
herman1rg Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 35	Looks like a warning stencil or perhaps a notification of filler cap or similar underneath?

08-05-2009, 07:43 PM	#10
A4K Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,224	I agree with Erich it's a special stencil... maybe 'D/MW' (BMW 801D, MW 50) or similar?

08-06-2009, 05:53 AM	#11
Kingscoy Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 41	Yes...could be. We thought of that one too. The stencil is approx 15cm in diameter. And I agree with Erich that this 190 did not have the weaponsystem for the Wgr 21 during Market Garden in place. It would be great if a photo or drawing could prove that this stencil is for the engine/ fuel specifications. Then it could help us in our search in identifying this a/c and its pilot. Our archive research points in the direction of JG 6, but we are absolutly not sure! The eyewitness couldn't remember the exact day....and then it becomes pretty difficult. Regards, Sander

08-06-2009, 06:10 AM	#12
Kingscoy Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 41	P.s Sorry I was a little bit over enthousiast....the stencil is exact 6.3cm in diameter. cheers, S.

08-06-2009, 11:14 AM	#13
beaupower32 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Charleston, South Carolina Posts: 721	Is there any other markings on the aircraft like a Number or even possibly a Werk Number. That might help out alot. The small yellow ring on the rear part of the MG access cover indicates a BMW 801 D-2 engine with MW50 boost. Im still looking for pictures, but this is the info I have found so far. Here is a picture of a 190 with the marking. Still looking for one up close though. __________________ The four elements: Earth, Air, Water, and Fire. Of these, I call your attention to two: Air and Fire. Though it is your privilege to live in the air, you will die by fire. Last edited by beaupower32; 08-06-2009 at 11:47 AM.

08-06-2009, 12:33 PM	#14
Kingscoy Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 41	Hi beaupower32, No, no werknummer so far found on the wreackage parts we excavated. You can find more photo's of what we found during this recovery at the link below. Fw190A-8 recovered at Groessen The photo you posted indeed shows the stencil on the specific location.....thank you very much!! It seems that our mysterie is solved. Do you know if this stencil was applied regularly or not, because of the many photo's I looked at not one 190showed this stencil? Cheers, Sander

08-06-2009, 02:15 PM	#15
beaupower32 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Charleston, South Carolina Posts: 721	Im still lookin pretty hard, but hontestly I dont think it was applied to every single aircraft. __________________ The four elements: Earth, Air, Water, and Fire. Of these, I call your attention to two: Air and Fire. Though it is your privilege to live in the air, you will die by fire.

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