Unknown largebattle damaged panel, dug up in Normandy - Aircraft of World War II

steve3883 · 03-30-2009, 11:48 AM

Hi there,

This my first post on the forum, I live in Normandy and regularily go metal detecting on the battlefields, I mainly find items related to the war on the ground but recently I found this large aluminium panel.

It is 3 feet long by 2 feet high, semi-circular and has some sort of knob/catch at the top marked only with a "Z". There is someblack paint and red primer left in some places and there are four bullet/schrapnel holes in it.

I found this lodged in a hedgerow near Sainteny in Normandy, I know that a P-47 was shot down a couple of fields away from where I found the panel, I have also een told by some of the local older people that a couple of German aircraft were shot down in the area in July 44.

If anyone recognises the panel and which aircraft it was off I would love to know!

Thanks in advance,

Steve (France)

FLYBOYJ · 03-30-2009, 12:01 PM

Are there any other markings or stamps on it? Is there a hinge on it? Can you photograph the reverse side?

Bill G. · 03-30-2009, 01:19 PM

[QUOTE=steve3883;476099]Hi there,

This my first post on the forum, I live in Normandy and regularily go metal detecting on the battlefields, I mainly find items related to the war on the ground but recently I found this large aluminium panel.QUOTE]

Please, Please. Please be safe!

There are still a lot, many tons, of explosives left on the many battlefields of not only WWII, but WWI. These explosives do NOT know that the war is over. They can still explode causing serious injury and death. Sometimes it can take very little disturbance to cause an explosion.

These many devises have explosives that have deteriorated and are now even more unstable. This makes handling anything with explosives beyond extremely dangerous.

Anytime you find anything that may contain explosives, leave it, don't touch it! Mark the area and note the location. Then give this information to the French Police or other local authorities.

I can not stress this enough!

I served both in then West Germany, 1980 - 1983 and in Iraq 2003 - 2004. I received many safety breifings on how to deal with found explosives. Safely dealing with the highly dangerous explosives requires the expertise of a trained Explosive Ordinance Device person.

So be very safe!

Bill G.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 03-30-2009, 05:01 PM

I was going to say the same thing Bill. Just on Sunday my train from Hamburg was delayed near Hannover because they found an American WW2 bomb that had not exploded.

Colin1 · 03-30-2009, 05:40 PM

Is that a stamp or engraving on the face of that bolt head?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 03-30-2009, 05:46 PM

I believe that is the Z stamp he was talking about.

Colin1 · 03-30-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I believe that is the Z stamp he was talking about.

That'll be me not reading the whole thread...

rochie · 03-31-2009, 11:17 AM

could it be a outer panel from an aircraft wingtip ?

A4K · 04-01-2009, 09:49 AM

It looks like it in form, but that 'Z' bolt..??

Sweb · 04-01-2009, 08:39 PM

Every day it seems there's a report of the military disposing of WWII ordnance here in Orlando, Florida. It was a training bombing range and now urban sprawl is encroaching upon it, construction crews are discovering the ordnance and military demolition teams are disposing of it.

When I was working in the Pacific an American 500 pounder was discovered and the Navy flew in a team. I asked the lieutenant in charge why they always exploded the bombs where they were found. It might sound like a dumb question but sometimes these bombs were discovered in the middle of a new construction site where foundations and building starts are in progress or under a community. Blowing up an unexploded bomb meant taking out the area. The lieutenant pointed out that the bomb firing pin up front was bent which rendered the front fuse inoperable. But, the rear (secondary) fuse consisted of a glass vial of acid with an impact-driven hammer that would break the vial on impact. That acid would eat away a retainer holding a spring loaded initiator similar to the front fuse. He said he had no idea if the vial was broken or if it was the acid still be corrosive and pooled away from the retainer. Movement might bring the two together. So, they always exploded them where they lay.

Oh, I studied that piece of aluminum for quite a while. I would think it is from an aircraft but the shape is confounding. If it was a component of the airframe a piece that size would have a uniform fastener pattern that could be matched to a particular airplane with a little study. But, it only has the one fitting and it is marked with a Z-looking character. It has was appears to be 4 .30 cal holes in it in a close grouping (MG). The fitting appears to have a (clogged) center hole indicating it might be a drain bolt. If so, it might be what's left of some type of reservoir, possibly a fuel, oil or coolant tank and the (drain) bolt would be properly located if the curved shape was actually the bottom of the tank. Tanks were usually fabricated from panels with stamped-in stiffener reliefs, edge-welded only and with external hangers welded on for airframe mounting. No fasteners were used to prevent leaks. Wild guess bit that's all I've got.

FLYBOYJ · 04-01-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweb

Oh, I studied that piece of aluminum for quite a while.

Do we know it's aluminum?

Any type of 24T (2024) aluminum unless completely submerged in water or completely buried would have been a lot more corroded. Just looking at the photo I'm thinking its made from mild steel but can't really tell unless I put my hands on it or a portion is ground away and photographed. The Z on the bolt is typical of many close tolerance bolts used in both armor and aircraft and as Steve describes, it being part of a latching mechanism, I'm thinking a ground vehicle rather than an aircraft. Steve, if you read this, besides the other requests, see if its magnetic.

03-30-2009, 12:01 PM	#2
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,050	Are there any other markings or stamps on it? Is there a hinge on it? Can you photograph the reverse side? __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

03-30-2009, 01:19 PM	#3
Bill G. Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Plainwell, MI Posts: 460	Safety FIRST! [QUOTE=steve3883;476099]Hi there, This my first post on the forum, I live in Normandy and regularily go metal detecting on the battlefields, I mainly find items related to the war on the ground but recently I found this large aluminium panel.QUOTE] Please, Please. Please be safe! There are still a lot, many tons, of explosives left on the many battlefields of not only WWII, but WWI. These explosives do NOT know that the war is over. They can still explode causing serious injury and death. Sometimes it can take very little disturbance to cause an explosion. These many devises have explosives that have deteriorated and are now even more unstable. This makes handling anything with explosives beyond extremely dangerous. Anytime you find anything that may contain explosives, leave it, don't touch it! Mark the area and note the location. Then give this information to the French Police or other local authorities. I can not stress this enough! I served both in then West Germany, 1980 - 1983 and in Iraq 2003 - 2004. I received many safety breifings on how to deal with found explosives. Safely dealing with the highly dangerous explosives requires the expertise of a trained Explosive Ordinance Device person. So be very safe! Bill G.

03-30-2009, 05:01 PM	#4
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,152	I was going to say the same thing Bill. Just on Sunday my train from Hamburg was delayed near Hannover because they found an American WW2 bomb that had not exploded. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

03-30-2009, 05:46 PM	#6
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,152	I believe that is the Z stamp he was talking about. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

03-31-2009, 11:17 AM	#8
rochie Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: billingham nr middlesbrough uk Posts: 3,107	could it be a outer panel from an aircraft wingtip ? __________________ "We're not easily frightened. Also we know how hard it is for an army to cross the Channel — the last little corporal to try it came a cropper. So don't threaten or dictate to us until you're marching up Whitehall! ...and even then we won't listen!" quote from B.O.B movie

03-30-2009, 05:40 PM	#5
Colin1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,760	Is that a stamp or engraving on the face of that bolt head?

04-01-2009, 09:49 AM	#9
A4K Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,224	It looks like it in form, but that 'Z' bolt..??

04-01-2009, 08:39 PM	#10
Sweb Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 277	Every day it seems there's a report of the military disposing of WWII ordnance here in Orlando, Florida. It was a training bombing range and now urban sprawl is encroaching upon it, construction crews are discovering the ordnance and military demolition teams are disposing of it. When I was working in the Pacific an American 500 pounder was discovered and the Navy flew in a team. I asked the lieutenant in charge why they always exploded the bombs where they were found. It might sound like a dumb question but sometimes these bombs were discovered in the middle of a new construction site where foundations and building starts are in progress or under a community. Blowing up an unexploded bomb meant taking out the area. The lieutenant pointed out that the bomb firing pin up front was bent which rendered the front fuse inoperable. But, the rear (secondary) fuse consisted of a glass vial of acid with an impact-driven hammer that would break the vial on impact. That acid would eat away a retainer holding a spring loaded initiator similar to the front fuse. He said he had no idea if the vial was broken or if it was the acid still be corrosive and pooled away from the retainer. Movement might bring the two together. So, they always exploded them where they lay. Oh, I studied that piece of aluminum for quite a while. I would think it is from an aircraft but the shape is confounding. If it was a component of the airframe a piece that size would have a uniform fastener pattern that could be matched to a particular airplane with a little study. But, it only has the one fitting and it is marked with a Z-looking character. It has was appears to be 4 .30 cal holes in it in a close grouping (MG). The fitting appears to have a (clogged) center hole indicating it might be a drain bolt. If so, it might be what's left of some type of reservoir, possibly a fuel, oil or coolant tank and the (drain) bolt would be properly located if the curved shape was actually the bottom of the tank. Tanks were usually fabricated from panels with stamped-in stiffener reliefs, edge-welded only and with external hangers welded on for airframe mounting. No fasteners were used to prevent leaks. Wild guess bit that's all I've got.

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