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| Technical Detailed discussion of operation of aircraft, and other technical parts of aviation. |
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| Senior Member | Merlin turbocharger? Please help settle a discussion I was having with someone on another forum. Regarding the forced induction of the Merlins, it is my understanding that they are essentially the same as turbochargers fitted to modern engines. However, I've always been under the impression that the contemporary name for them was a turbo-supercharger, hence I would be correct in saying the Merlin was supercharged. He disagrees and thinks it was always referred to as a turbo. So basically, who's right?
__________________ "We attack tomorrow under cover of daylight" "Daylight sir?" "Yes it's the last thing they'll be expecting, a daylight charge over the minefield" |
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| | #2 |
| “Archive” ![]() Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,852
| Try reading this article hope fully it will answer your question http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/eng...ers-10770.html (Turbo Super chargers)
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| | #3 |
| Senior Member | Cheers for the link, interesting read and seems I'm vindicated. So while it is a turbo, referring to it as supercharged is technically correct
__________________ "We attack tomorrow under cover of daylight" "Daylight sir?" "Yes it's the last thing they'll be expecting, a daylight charge over the minefield" |
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| | #4 |
| “Archive” ![]() Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,852
| That's the way I read into it.
__________________ ![]() "Valor does not mean Hero." |
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| | #5 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 227
| The Merlin engine was not turbo-supercharged, that option was rejected. (See Rolls-Royce Merlin and Griffon ) The supercharger was driven mechanically. That is by the engine via a shaft and gearing. A turbocharger, like those fitted to modern cars, is driven by the exhaust gases turning a turbine. So a turbocharger is a type of supercharger, hence turbo-supercharger, but not all superchargers are turbo-superchargers. I think there may even have been electrically driven superchargers in the past. Superchargers require much more exact engineering and so are more expensive to manufacture. Turbochargers suffer from turbo-lag. There is a delay between the engine increasing speed and the extra power being produced. However, they are easier and cheaper to manufacture so are most often used in modern car engines. VW were the only volume car manufacturer to use superchargers and they seem to have abandoned them now. Mechanically driven superchargers require power from the engine, in the case of the Merlin several hundred hp. This is not the case with a turbocharger as the energy comes from the waste heat of the exhaust gases. However mechanically driven superchargers are able to produce much more extra hp than a turbocharger and so overall they are more powerful engines. |
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| | #6 |
| IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO ![]() Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 16,050
| And I could tell you as a maintainer "turbocharger" and "supercharger" are used interchangeably...
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" |
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| | #7 |
| Senior Member | After a bit of reading it would actually seem I'm in the wrong! A turbo can be referred to as supercharged but not vice-versa. All very confusing! Although I'm certain I've read sources that describe the Merlin as being turbo-supercharged
__________________ "We attack tomorrow under cover of daylight" "Daylight sir?" "Yes it's the last thing they'll be expecting, a daylight charge over the minefield" |
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| | #8 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 374
| A turbosupercharger utilises a turbine to extract work from the exhaust gas stream. That is why it is called a "turbo". A supercharger is the term used for a device used to increase the inlet charge density so that the engine can develop more power. It usually consists of a centrigual pump. For boosts of below one atmosphere, the term "blower" is used as well as supercharger. |
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| | #9 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,765
| Hi Red, >For boosts of below one atmosphere, the term "blower" is used as well as supercharger. Allow me to add that historically, "blower" was used as a synonym for "supercharger", or even "supercharger speed" (in the combination "high blower" or "low blower"), for example in the "Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 Mustang". The V-1650's supercharger of course was capable of producing boosts far exceeding one atmosphere. Modern terminology might be different, of course! Regards, Henning (HoHun) |
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| | #10 | |
| Senior Member | Quote:
Also Mazda used to use compressor on Xedos model, guess on ´97 and ´98 production year, but not anymore, at least here.
__________________ ![]() Roman Susil Zlin, Czech Republic ...a friend of Joe Owsianik,So. Plainfield, NJ, a former left waist gunner from B-17G ''Tail End Charlie" from 2ndBG,20th Sqdn who was forced to bail out on Aug. 29th, 1944 over my country. | |
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| | #11 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,765
| Hi Seesul, >Never heard about VW using supercharger, at least here in Europe. They used a scroll compressor for the VW Corrado (and it apparently went into some other models, too): Volkswagen Corrado - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Mercedes use Roots-type supercharger (as far as I know): Roots type supercharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Regards, Henning (HoHun) |
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| | #12 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 227
| It was called the G60 G-lader, named after its spiral displacer. All the VW models had a G60 version apart from the Polo that had a smaller supercharger G40. They were first available in the late 1980’s I think. They earned a reputation for unreliability needing rebuilding after 45,000 miles but I think later improved versions last 100,000 miles. I haven’t owned a VW for over ten years and I am out of touch with what bthey are up to these days. I had five or six in the 1980’s and early 1990’s. From what I remember at the time VW and Audi had different engines and separate design and development establishments. Audi had turbocharged engines but WV did not like turbochargers apart from diesels. So they developed a supercharger that could be produced at a cost that allowed them to be used in mass produced cars. I don’t think they have any supercharged model anymore probably because the unreliability problems put people off buying them. So, no doubt, they have had to follow the pack and move to turbochargers. I think you will find the turbocharged VWs, like my Seat, actually have Audi engines. Polo G40 History |
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| | #13 |
| Senior Member | The older BMW Mini used a supercharger but it's now a turbo. VW also make the TSI engine which is both turbo and supercharged
__________________ "We attack tomorrow under cover of daylight" "Daylight sir?" "Yes it's the last thing they'll be expecting, a daylight charge over the minefield" |
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| | #14 | |||
| Senior Member | Quote:
Quote:
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But really I don´t know why did they use it on combine as such a kind of machine works mostly with high RPM and doesn´t change the RPM setting during the work
__________________ ![]() Roman Susil Zlin, Czech Republic ...a friend of Joe Owsianik,So. Plainfield, NJ, a former left waist gunner from B-17G ''Tail End Charlie" from 2ndBG,20th Sqdn who was forced to bail out on Aug. 29th, 1944 over my country. | |||
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| | #15 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10
| Hi every body, You could have also a self sustain turbocharger (SST), like on the french battle tank Leclerc (french army). This is a big turbocharger with a main burner and a valve to manage the difference of pressure between exhaust gas and air pressure after compression . It is the system SURALMO HYPERBAR. |
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