Question about 8Th air force WW2

[criannick]

Hi all

a long time I didn't visit you ...

As many other modellers getting older with grand children asf , I have less time for my favorit hobby

Anyway , while now 73.... , I 'm going on...



I'm a french modeler buying 1/72 WW2 ( and part of WW1) since 1963..

As well I belong to a museum WW2 team , specially for WW2 AFV , but there, I'm one of the few air forces fan as I belong to a quite old modelers's club since 1969

see site her e:

MM PARK FRANCE

mmpark.fr

So I have to present next july a conference about the upset of USAF air force in west Europe beetween summer 1943 and spring 1944

This subject is first about the 8th AF ; I have it's organigram and a lot of information


A question remains , on which I'm not sure :

How many Bombers were inside each 4 Bomber Squadrons of a Bomber Group ?

12 ?

less ?

more ?



thanks a lot fan friends !

christian



Ps : in the same time I'm starting buidling a "brand new" B-17 G (new airfix model) ; the best , I mean ...

hope I will finish the challenge till July !

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Hi all

a long time I didn't visit you ...

As many other modellers getting older with grand children asf , I have less time for my favorit hobby

Anyway , while now 73.... , I 'm going on...



I'm a french modeler buying 1/72 WW2 ( and part of WW1) since 1963..

As well I belong to a museum WW2 team , specially for WW2 AFV , but there, I'm one of the few air forces fan as I belong to a quite old modelers's club since 1969

see site her e:

MM PARK FRANCE

mmpark.fr

So I have to present next july a conference about the upset of USAF air force in west Europe beetween summer 1943 and spring 1944

This subject is first about the 8th AF ; I have it's organigram and a lot of information


A question remains , on which I'm not sure :

How many Bombers were inside each 4 Bomber Squadrons of a Bomber Group ?

12 ?

less ?

more ?



thanks a lot fan friends !

christian



Ps : in the same time I'm starting buidling a "brand new" B-17 G (new airfix model) ; the best , I mean ...

hope I will finish the challenge till July !

Around twelve-fifteen as I remember, per org chart -- but losses would lower that number significantly.

 

[Frog]

12 bombers per heavy bombardment squadron.
4 squadrons per group, total 48 ships.
In february 1945, the heavy bombardment squadrons were officially raised to 18 planes per squadron, 72 ships per group.

 

[SaparotRob]

Great stuff, criannick! Those are some wonderful things you are involved with. I especially like that cannon equipped bunker in the parking lot. No one argues over parking fees!

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

According to the RAF report on 8th Air Force strength the Heavy Bomber Groups had an establishment of 35 or 36 aircraft, this was raised to 48 in early January 1944.

In late 1942 most groups had around 36 bombers
Mid June 1943 most groups had around 40 bombers (low 27 high 46)
Mid August 1943 most groups had around 40 bombers
In early January 1944 group strength varied between 17 and 53, the B-24 groups were mostly under strength.
In early February group strength varied between 17 and 53, groups were generally at mid 30's to mid 40's, it looks like the expansion to the new larger strengths was mostly by group.
Mid March 1944 the B-17 groups had 43 to 70 aircraft, the B-24 37 to 51, continuing a trend of the B-17 units being on average stronger and 1st Bomb Wing units being stronger on average than 3rd Bomb Wing.
Mid April the B-17 units generally had mid 50's aircraft, the B-24 low 40's.
A look at mid February 1945 shows most groups around the 48 mark and again the B-17 units had on average more aircraft than the B-24.

Without doing a detailed study mid to end 1943 the B-17 groups were usually maintained a little above the 36 figure, then expanded, probably a group at a time, to the new 48 figure by March/April 1944 and again a little above. The B-24 groups generally held fewer aircraft on average. This of course hides a wide variation in strengths between groups and in a group over time. For example the 96th BG sent 42 aircraft on the 2 October 1943 raid.

Some strength reports count all aircraft on operational airfields, including those under longer term repair by units other than the group based at the airfield.

 

[criannick]

According to the RAF report on 8th Air Force strength the Heavy Bomber Groups had an establishment of 35 or 36 aircraft, this was raised to 48 in early January 1944.

In late 1942 most groups had around 36 bombers
Mid June 1943 most groups had around 40 bombers (low 27 high 46)
Mid August 1943 most groups had around 40 bombers
In early January 1944 group strength varied between 17 and 53, the B-24 groups were mostly under strength.
In early February group strength varied between 17 and 53, groups were generally at mid 30's to mid 40's, it looks like the expansion to the new larger strengths was mostly by group.
Mid March 1944 the B-17 groups had 43 to 70 aircraft, the B-24 37 to 51, continuing a trend of the B-17 units being on average stronger and 1st Bomb Wing units being stronger on average than 3rd Bomb Wing.
Mid April the B-17 units generally had mid 50's aircraft, the B-24 low 40's.
A look at mid February 1945 shows most groups around the 48 mark and again the B-17 units had on average more aircraft than the B-24.

Without doing a detailed study mid to end 1943 the B-17 groups were usually maintained a little above the 36 figure, then expanded, probably a group at a time, to the new 48 figure by March/April 1944 and again a little above. The B-24 groups generally held fewer aircraft on average. This of course hides a wide variation in strengths between groups and in a group over time. For example the 96th BG sent 42 aircraft on the 2 October 1943 raid.

Some strength reports count all aircraft on operational airfields, including those under longer term repair by units other than the group based at the airfield.

Great stuff, criannick! Those are some wonderful things you are involved with. I especially like that cannon equipped bunker in the parking lot. No one argues over parking fees!

sorry , I had yesterday a computer bug while writing, so my "quotes" went away without my response !!
So....

thanks all !
The fact is that , of course, all planes were not available for each mission
Very detailed text from Geoffrey ! great !
And logic that the power of units was growing year after year ...

Christian