 | Favorite gun armament of WWII aircraft| Weapons Systems Tech. Discuss Favorite gun armament of WWII aircraft in the Technical forums; After playing numerous flight simulators I noticed that bigger guns on aircraft usually are not that much more powerful modelled ... |
|
03-22-2008, 05:52 PM
|
#1 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dordrecht
Posts: 42
Country: | Favorite gun armament of WWII aircraft After playing numerous flight simulators I noticed that bigger guns on aircraft usually are not that much more powerful modelled than smaller ones. So I decided to read more about the subject. The best book I read about this is: Flying Guns of World War II. One of the most interesting things in this book is a formula for calculating gun strength.
The authors base their formula on momentum instead of kinetic and chemical energy because kinetic energy overstates the speed of the projectile and chemical energy is to complex to be compared with kinetic energy.
I took the challenge to make my own formula. See my website: [url="http://members.tele2.nl/harmstolk/gunpower.htm"]
My question to the other forum members is:
1) Do you think my and/or Williams/Gustin formula approaches historical accuracy?
2) What is your favorite gun armament of WWII and why? |
| |
03-22-2008, 06:42 PM
|
#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 795
Country: | Hi Fokker,
>See my website: Back to my homepage
Looks good! :-)
I'd like to see a table comparing the individual guns, if possible sorted by efficiency. I'd also include the mass of rounds plus drums/belts into the efficiency comparison, as that will give a better impression of the entire weapons system.
For my comparison, I have simply used total energy. The additional factors you introduce are entirely arbitary - a solid round piercing through aircraft skind wastes a proportion of its energy just like an explosive round, and I don't think it's possible to tell generically which type of loss is higher.
Oh, and I noticed you used the term "effective range" - what's your definition of that term?
Regards,
Henning (HoHun) |
| |
03-22-2008, 06:54 PM
|
#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 2,128
Country: | Favorite gun armament of WWII aircraft..
Depends on the mission and theater.
If your hunting 4 engine bombers... gotta have cannons.
If your going after fighters... .50 is my choice
If I'm shredding Japanese aircraft, I may even want 10 or 12 .303 brownings..
__________________ “that can’t be a prop job....it’s got to be one of the 262 jets.”.... James Finnegan. |
| |
03-22-2008, 10:18 PM
|
#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: logan ohio
Posts: 243
Country: | comiso i have too agree with you there on your picks , maybe a few more 303 lol !!!!!! |
| |
03-24-2008, 06:38 AM
|
#5 | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,322
Country: |
__________________ 
"Valor does not mean Hero." |
| |
03-24-2008, 07:39 AM
|
#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gdansk, PL
Posts: 316
Country: | "If I'm shredding Japanese aircraft, I may even want 10 or 12 .303 brownings"
Where would you put theme? You'd need at least biplane Spitfire Mk.I with double A wing - 16x.303! 
__________________ Pozdrawiam |
| |
03-24-2008, 08:28 AM
|
#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 1,776
Country: | Like the P-38 armament, a 20mm and four .50s in the nose.
TO
__________________ “Let's get Enterprise and Hornet turned into the wind." |
| |
03-24-2008, 09:30 AM
|
#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London
Posts: 2,794
| I prefer the Whirlwind, 4 x 20mm in the nose, nasty |
| |
03-24-2008, 09:44 AM
|
#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 2,128
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by toffigd "If I'm shredding Japanese aircraft, I may even want 10 or 12 .303 brownings"
Where would you put theme? You'd need at least biplane Spitfire Mk.I with double A wing - 16x.303!  | Hurricane XII
Canadian-built variant. Single-seat fighter and fighter-bomber. Powered by a 1,300 hp (969 kW) Packard Merlin 29. Initially armed with 12 0.303 inch (7.7 mm) machine guns, but this was later changed to four 20 mm cannon Hawker Hurricane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________ “that can’t be a prop job....it’s got to be one of the 262 jets.”.... James Finnegan. |
| |
03-24-2008, 12:47 PM
|
#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Pine Mountain Lake, California
Posts: 622
Country: | Gimme a Sturmbock Fw 190 A-8/R2; I'll take 2 30mm Mk 108's, 2 20mm MG 151/20's, and two MG 17's any day.
__________________ |
| |
03-24-2008, 12:51 PM
|
#11 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,705
Country: | Same here Stich, unless I was going up top to handle P-51's, then lose the 30mms and stay with the 4x20mm and 2xMG17s...
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case |
| |
03-24-2008, 01:28 PM
|
#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Aquincum, Pannonia Prima
Posts: 509
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Fokker D21
My question to the other forum members is:
1) Do you think my and/or Williams/Gustin formula approaches historical accuracy? | Tony`s formula is one approach to a very complex problem, and he readily admits that it has weaknesses; IMHO the greatest weakness is that it bases the projectiles 'destructive power' (for the lack of a better word) on Kinetic energy, and ie. HE shells only get their KE multiplied to represent Chemical Energy, and the two has little to do with each other. To illustrate with an example, a hand granade kills you all the same wheter it explodes sitting on the ground, flying in the air or hits you in the stomach after thrown and then explodes. There is no connection.
But as said, it`s an extremely complex subject, depending on where the projectile hits (ie. if the bullet passes through the wingtip, the same amount of KE will be transferred, ie. the one needed to penetrate through, wheter we speak of a high velocity or low velocity round of similiar calibre), what it hits etc.
I fear its simply impossible to give back the effect with a single number. Quote: |
2) What is your favorite gun armament of WWII and why?
| Late La 7 and Yak 3 with the pair or triple 20mm cannons. Its an excellent, light, compact cannon with high rate of fire and high velocity, the 20mm is simply the best all around armament and all of it is centered in the nose.
Its a sexy combination of a neat and deadly package. Of course there were some monstrosities, but I prefer the reasonable package. |
| |
03-24-2008, 01:32 PM
|
#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 311
Country: | How about 6x50 cal.s and 2x 30mm cannons.
__________________ Four hostile newspapers are more to be feared than a thousand bayonets.
--Napoleon Bonaparte-- |
| |
03-24-2008, 01:56 PM
|
#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 7,940
| Why shred a Japanese airplane with .30's?
Go with the 10 .50's!!!!!
Plus you can also shred Japanese ships with the 50 cals.
__________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" |
| |
03-24-2008, 02:38 PM
|
#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: nr middlesbrough uk
Posts: 461
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by SoD Stitch Gimme a Sturmbock Fw 190 A-8/R2; I'll take 2 30mm Mk 108's, 2 20mm MG 151/20's, and two MG 17's any day. | i'll agree with that much better to be sat behind that lot than in front looking down the barrels
__________________ "We're not easily frightened.
Also we know how hard it is for an army to cross the Channel — the last little corporal to try it came a cropper.
So don't threaten or dictate to us until you're marching up Whitehall! ...and even then we won't listen!" quote from B.O.B movie |
| | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 PM. |  | |