Ju 87 dive brakes and fighter capabilities

[black out]

Hello everyone, Im new and I bet there are some stuka fans here. My question would be the reason of the removal of the dive brakes of the late model stukas (d7, d. I believe those were used for divebombing at night so why remove the brakes for standard dive bombing from relatively high altitude? Also im very intersted in the usage of late stukas in1944-45 in the western front(ive read there wasnt any but i speculate they might have been used as fighter bombers as a last resort). And also could the late stukas shoot down other slow planes with 20 mm for example obselete planes in the eastern front or even "dogfight" with an il 2 sturmovik or alike?Thank you for any input on the questions.

[Aussie1001]

i am fairly sure that the last real use that the '87 found was in russia as a tank buster ?

[SoD Stitch]

Yeah, as Aussie said, the Ju 87 was pretty much outclassed by anything else in the air by '44; the only time the Stuka could fly safely was when the LW had complete air dominance, which wasn't happening very often by then. The last time the Stuka was able to fly & fight without getting mauled was probably '43 on the Eastern Front. Yes, they were used very effectively early on as a tank-buster on the Eastern Front, particularly by Hans Ulrich Rudel, but the 37mm underwing cannon pods made it's lackluster performance even worse than it already was.

By '45 I don't think there were any -87's flying operational missions anywhere, Eastern Front or Western Front, and they had all been relegated to liason & training duties where they wouldn't get shot down.

[Denniss]

Dive brakes were removed with the D-5 version as they were almost always used as ground attack instead of dive bombing. Ju 87 were used to the end of the war but in the last year almost always in the night. Allied night fighters had problems with these beasts, it was not easy for them to fly slow enough to detect, locate and to destroy them as they would often overshoot them.

[Aussie1001]

Ok thanks for that stitch and Denniss, i wasn't sure....

[Heinz]

The 87 was outclassed by the Battle Of Britain.
tank busting was their last major role.

I actually read somewhere that 'pods' were designed to sit on the wings to carry extra people when moving airfields. Something along those lines Im not sure exactly but it sat where the wings bent.

[Graeme]

Originally Posted by Heinz

I actually read somewhere that 'pods' were designed to sit on the wings to carry extra people when moving airfields. Something along those lines Im not sure exactly but it sat where the wings bent.

Yeah, you're right Heinz, the Junkers Ju 87D-3 with two-seat passenger pods.



Looks a lot more comfortable than this 'rapid evacuation' pod for critically wounded soldiers, under a P-38 wing.

[black out]

Thanks for the input guys, but when Germany sill had air superiority in the east for example could the stuka w 20 mm cannons be used as fighter bomber? Too slow? How about against some of the obselete russian planes or the slow but well armored sturmovik? Also I think I saw a documentary where when the allies advanced closer and closer to Berlin some stukas that still werent destroyed tried to destroy a bridge to stop the advance. Im aware that at that time me 262s jabos and ardo 234 were used for ground attack (Ardennes offensive), but i wonder what was the last ju 87 dive bombing mission.

[CharlesBronson]

Hard to believe but true, the Stuka was used as a fighter, it scored the Fist Air victory of the World War II.

[Aussie1001]

What ???????
are u serious....
OMFG...

[Graeme]

Originally Posted by CharlesBronson

Hard to believe but true, the Stuka was used as a fighter, it scored the Fist Air victory of the World War II.

Shoot down or shot down?
Or should the below title be ..the first allied aerial victory of the war?..

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That is the first allied victory.

They very first victory of the war was when a Ju 87 shot down a Polish Polikarpov Po-2.

The victory was credited to Kettenführer Leutnant Frank Neubert on Sept 1, 1939 and the Polikarpov Po-2 was piloted by Captain Mieczysław Medwecki.

[CharlesBronson]

What ???????
are u serious....
OMFG...

Shoot down or shot down?
Or should the below title be ..the first allied aerial victory of the war?..

I always have two things short, patiente and sence of humour.

If somebody still dont get it I repeat, the Ju-87B piloted by Franz Neubert scored the first air victory of the Worl War Two, shooting down a polish PZL 11 fighter.

I hope now is clear enough.

[black out]

Thats a surprise even for me- stuka is probablly my favourite if not bf 109. I bet there were even more areal victories on the eastern front with ju 87 d5 for example, however very few for sure. I red somwere on the net that Rudel still carried out dive bombing missions (III./sg2) in 1944 altho the g model tank killer was probably used more at that time.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by CharlesBronson

If somebody still dont get it I repeat, the Ju-87B piloted by Franz Neubert scored the first air victory of the Worl War Two, shooting down a polish PZL 11 fighter.

I hope now is clear enough.

Dont worry I got you the first time...