Luftwaffe Cannons and Machineguns topic.

[Graeme]

Great posts Charles!

[CharlesBronson]

Thanks boys !!

Dusenkanone Duka 28 cm. 280 mm recoiless cannon for Ju-288:

This projekt is similar to the Gerät 104, but it use a smaller ( if a 28cm shell is small) caliber with a double back gasses derivation.
This derivation system allowed the gun to by embeded in the Ju-288 fuselage , the propellant gasses escaped passing by two nozzles, one in the right fuselage and other in the left. That gave it better aerodinamics characteristics.




Muzzle speed: 560 m/s.

Projectile type: APHE

Projectile weight; 400 Kg

Armor penetration (estimated): 200 mm Face hardened plate ( shot from an angle of 32º dive)

No more data available, it remains as proyect only.

[CharlesBronson]

SG 113 "Förstersonde " recoiless 77 mm gun.

"Sonder Gerät", special material Nº 113 was a development of Herman Göring Werke of Brunswick ( a Reinmethall-Borsig subsidiary) in response of a RLM directive looking for a improved accuracy cannon devoted for ground attack only.

The SG 113 was basicly a single shot gun with a 77mm caliber tube loaded with a saboted 45mm steel core ap ammo, in the back of the cartrigde there was a counterweight wich was discarded and proyected backwards (or upwards depending upon the guns placement) to equilibrate the recoil forces.



Each tube had a lenght of 1600mm and weight (loaded) 67 kilograms.
Using the experience of Dr. Hackemann and Dr. Schwetzke employees of the LFA firm , HGw developed an electromagnetically triggered mechanism equipment. This mechanism responded to the electrostatic field surrounding the tank.


This cannon was first emplaced in 3 Hs-129B-0 aircrafts for testing in mid-1944.
The instalation in the Hs-129 comprised six tubes embeded in the mid fuselage, the muzzles had a 10º angle backwards. Its battery was trigerred by a "T" shaped sensor antenna in the nose of the Henschel.

Hs-129B-0 WrkN 0016



This aircrafts were used intensively in shooting test in the Rechlin Lutwaffe facilities in late 1944. The six tubes could be fired individually of a full burst of the entire SG 113 barrels

Upper view, 6 x SG-113 guns.

[Graeme]

Not Luftwaffe, but I thought it 'appropriate'.

May 1941. A Havoc with six upward firing guns (don't know size) behind clamshell doors. The guns azimuth and elevation is controlled by rams. The

From Tim Mason's book 'The Secret Years'.

[CharlesBronson]

That is weird...I wonder if those are 20mm guns or what.

[Tony Williams]

They were .303 Brownings.

An interesting experiment and more sophisticated than the later Luftwaffe Schräge Musik: not only could the guns be retracted, their elevation could be altered.

That just makes it all the more surprising that it took the RAF so long to ackowledge that Schräge Musik was being used against their bombers.

[CharlesBronson]

Thanks Tony, those heavy barrels doesnt looked like ,303 to me. I tough was a bigger caliber.

[CharlesBronson]

SG 113, part II.

Two images of the Rechlin test with the SG 113.

Missed shot on t-34.




Hit on top armor.




SG 113 in FW-190F:



Into the FW 190 twin tubes were built in each case on the right of and left by the trunk into the surfaces. The effect of the weapon was considerable, depending upon hit angle could it one 40 mm strong armoring with 60° and 50 mm with 75° impact angle smoothly pierce and/or strongly distort and promised thus a good success with the fight of armored targets.



To monitoring of the hit results was done via one parallel to the weapon inserted Robot camera with the shot was at the same time released.



Both tubes were installed into a common lining stood out in each case 700mm above and down from the bearing area of the L.G. 190. For forced down landings the SG 113 barrel could be ejected by means of small explosive charges by a simple mechanism below 300 km/h.

Flying path of aproach to target with the SG 113, note the sensors one below each wing.



Is not know if the SG 113 was actually used in combat.

[CharlesBronson]

Reinhmetall SG 116 'Zellendusche'

Sonder Gerät 116 'Zellendusche' ( cell shower) was a recoiless 30mm cannon.This equipment was developed, in order to make attacks possible on hostile bomber formations by flying underneath.



The triggering device was operated by means a "photoelectric cell feeler", a plant working according to kind of the exposure meter, which was released only directly during the target approach before flying underneath the opponent.

Sensor devices were manufactured by the company Opta-Radio. The weapon was built with Rheinmetall Borsig. The SG 116 was built into three different arrangements: four pieces in rhombic form in the trunk, six pieces in double triangle form or 3 pieces in line in the trunk sidewall with a Spreitzung of 2 degrees.The last model of the SG 116 was emplaced in the FW-190. Several testing took place with whe FW-190, He-117 even the lesser Fw 58.



Lenght of individual barrel: 1,65 m
Muzzle speed. 825 m/s.

[ChrisMAg2]

Originally Posted by CharlesBronson

Reinhmetall SG 116 'Zellendusche'

Sonder Gerät 116 'Zellendusche' ( cell shower) was a recoiless 30mm cannon.This equipment was developed, in order to make attacks possible on hostile bomber formations by flying underneath.

You could also have said: ...a recoiless cannon based on the barrels of 30mm MK 101 and it's ammo.

...

Originally Posted by CharlesBronson

The triggering device was operated by means a "photoelectric cell feeler", a plant working according to kind of the exposure meter, which was released only directly during the target approach before flying underneath the opponent.

Sensor devices were manufactured by the company Opta-Radio. The weapon was built with Rheinmetall Borsig. The SG 116 was built into three different arrangements: four pieces in rhombic form in the trunk, six pieces in double triangle form or 3 pieces in line in the trunk sidewall with a Spreitzung of 2 degrees.The last model of the SG 116 was emplaced in the FW-190. Several testing took place with whe FW-190, He-117 even the lesser Fw 58.

...

"Photozellenfühler"
Sometimes a literary translation doesn't make sense at all: You shouldn't translate cover up names in order to name/ describe a device. And the explaination is also not quite correct: It is not a kind of exposure meter, but a Selenium light sensor that works similar to a photographic exposure meter. It reacts only to light/ the absense of light. In this case it triggers on the shadow of the underflown a/c.

"...with a Spreitzung of 2 degrees".
First, correctely, it should be "Spreizung".
Second, this translates to "fanning" or "inclination".

"Nichts für ungut!"

[CharlesBronson]

You could also have said: ...a recoiless cannon based on the barrels of 30mm MK 101 and it's ammo.

NO, definately I wont not say that because the ammo used in the MK-101 have a brass/steel percussion cartrigde wich the SG 116 lacks. The SG 116 used a self combustible electric ignited case.

Better luck the next time you want to correct me.

"Photozellenfühler"
Sometimes a literary translation doesn't make sense at all: You shouldn't translate cover up names in order to name/ describe a device. And the explaination is also not quite correct: It is not a kind of exposure meter, but a Selenium light sensor that works similar to a photographic exposure meter. It reacts only to light/ the absense of light. In this case it triggers on the shadow of the underflown a/c.

"...with a Spreitzung of 2 degrees".
First, correctely, it should be "Spreizung".
Second, this translates to "fanning" or "inclination".

Sorry my brainy friend but the german is not the most descriptive language in the world so is pretty logic that one could made mistakes.

"Nichts für ungut!"

Gut or not gut is the only topic in the entire web dealing with the german cannons in so detailed manner. deal with that !!

[genkideskan]

In fact they used stored MK 103 barrels from luftwaffen depots with minor modifications in the chamber, a 3 cm Minenprojectile, powder in a cardboard tube and a breech piece with a counterweight rod. The primers where electrical fired converted primers from the 21cm rockets.
It never reaches production level. The trials ended in december 1944 and the
SD 116 was dropped.

The photo device used an cäsium tube ( similar to glas radio tubes) of 90mm length very similar to this speciem.

[CharlesBronson]

Thansk for the aditional info.

Another weapon the use the sensitive system was the SG 500, 50 mm jagdfaust, there is nice information here:

Komet weapons: SG500 Jägerfaust

[Graeme]

Expanding on CB's post regarding the SG113A.

[CharlesBronson]

Beautiful, thanks Graeme.

here another drawing of the ammo used by this cannon.