 | Stratofortress| Weapons Systems Tech. Discuss Stratofortress in the Technical forums; Depends on how high you are and how far away you are from it.... |
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10-16-2006, 11:13 AM
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#16 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,455
Country:  | Depends on how high you are and how far away you are from it.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | 
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10-16-2006, 05:14 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country:  | True, it'd be no good against shots fired close to your aircraft, but in the long distance it could be of some use.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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10-16-2006, 07:30 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,095
| A little bit off topic, but the AC130's (and maybe the AC-119's) that were used for interdiction along the Ho Chi Minh trail, had a crewman trailing in back attached to the aircraft by a tether. His job was to watch for IR guided SAM's being fired and then shoot flares at it to throw off the aim.
Now of course, I might have heard a BS story about this, so if someone has a difinitive "No It Didnt Happen", please correct me.
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"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
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10-17-2006, 10:19 AM
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#19 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,455
Country: | No that did not happen...
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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10-17-2006, 10:19 AM
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#20 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,455
Country: | That is one of those No **** there I was stories.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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10-17-2006, 10:36 AM
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#21 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,886
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by plan_D  The only thing I cared about with that jacket was the fact I had like seven quid in change in the inner pocket, if you look. That's why it weighs so much.
On the missile thing, I'm just throwing this out here. But I think some kind of heat sensing equipment would be quite useful, it would be able to detect it when it's launched because obviously they give off a lot of heat to launch. I don't know how it'd work, but it's an idea. |
Already exists gents. The question becomes one of money for retrofit. C-17 has 'em (IRST) with turret mounted laser for countermeasure. Civil regulations are being reviewed as we speak that may also require civil retrofit for Part 121 and 135 operations. Estimated costs are claimed to be about $1M per aircraft for laser countermeasures. Less for passive devices such as flares or decoys. As you can imagine, the manufacturers are salivating for this new rule.
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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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10-17-2006, 10:44 AM
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#22 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,455
Country: | I know on our Blackhawks all we had was Countermeasures kit which included a (wont go into details because the system is actually a classified system) a detection system for Radar guided missiles and Chaff and then a IR suppression system for the IR missiles but you still had to detect IR missiles by sight.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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10-17-2006, 12:24 PM
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#23 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,095
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt308 .....passive devices such as flares or decoys. ..... | I can see it now.....a 737 equipped with flares comes into land at Ontario Airport (in S. Cal), picks up a false alarm, fires off the flares and starts a massive fire in the nearby mountains 
Or a 767 does the same thing coming into land at Orange County airport.
Wait.... that isnt funny..... those flares could land on my house!!!!!
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"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
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10-17-2006, 02:16 PM
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#24 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,886
Country: | You laugh, but those discussions are actually taking place. Liability is a huge issue between operators, regulators, and Homeland Security.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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10-17-2006, 03:07 PM
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#25 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,968
Country: | When I worked for BAE flight systems we put a bid together for some of the major airlines for chaff dispensers and cameras inside the cargo bays as well as exterior video camera installations.
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
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10-17-2006, 03:25 PM
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#26 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,886
Country: | Then you would know about having to satisfy FAR Part 25 and the impact to engineering deliverables (ie installation drawings, lab/ground/flight test plans, type inspections, etc). Can you imagine the safety assessment for pyrotechnics shot from the airplane? The lockouts to prevent ground personnel from blowing themselves up during a refuel? The development assurance necessary to satisfy regulatory requirements? What a nightmare.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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10-17-2006, 03:32 PM
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#27 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,968
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt308 Then you would know about having to satisfy FAR Part 25 and the impact to engineering deliverables (ie installation drawings, lab/ground/flight test plans, type inspections, etc). | Sure do - we had an STC ready to go - no Fed in the world was going to balk at it, especially after 9-11. Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt308 Can you imagine the safety assessment for pyrotechnics shot from the airplane? The lockouts to prevent ground personnel from blowing themselves up during a refuel? The development assurance necessary to satisfy regulatory requirements? What a nightmare. | Actually the system was quite safe and already used in a number of military aircraft (it would of been similar to the AEL-47). You could hit it with a base ball bat and nothing was going to happen. That was all worked out, it was all a matter of money and how much the airlines were going to pay at the time.
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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10-18-2006, 11:04 AM
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#28 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,886
Country: | Well if BAE is still in the countermeasures business, they must be waiting with baited breath. 15,000 airframes is quite a lucrative potential market.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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10-18-2006, 11:46 AM
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#29 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,968
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt308 Well if BAE is still in the countermeasures business, they must be waiting with baited breath. 15,000 airframes is quite a lucrative potential market. | The Flight Systems division who I used to work for is, they been waiting for 5 years now...
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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10-18-2006, 12:34 PM
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#30 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,886
Country: | Well, between you and me, its a stupid idea. It seems that it would be more cost effective AND less burdensome upon the operators to just field ground based technology (ie microwave or laser) in the TCA. With stated ranges of 7mi (stated mind you), this would seem to be the most operationally effective versus the cost.
Too much politics are at play here and the lobbyists are going ape.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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