Best Ace of WW1

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 09-20-2006, 10:19 AM

Not sure on that. I know his Sabre after the war when he was in the Luftwaffe in the 1950s before going to train pilots for the USAF in the United States had the tulip painted on its nose.

timshatz · 09-20-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Not sure on that. I know his Sabre after the war when he was in the Luftwaffe in the 1950s before going to train pilots for the USAF in the United States had the tulip painted on its nose.

Successful advertising in any case. Make guys go find somebody else a bit easier to jump.

Hunter368 · 09-20-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

Read his book and vaguely remember it saying he didn't fly the aircraft with the tulip nose for long. Thought the Russians were avoiding him. But it has to have been 20 years or more since I read that particular book.

Still looks cool.

That is true, he kept it for a short while only. The Russian's learnt his call name and connected the dots with the 109 with the tulip on it and avoided it. His claims declined until he realized that and got rid of the tulip. Once he got rid of the tulip his claims increased again.

All this is from the book "The Blond Knight of Germany".

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 09-20-2006, 10:39 AM

Cool did not know that.

Erich · 09-20-2006, 11:13 AM

ah but several aces in JG 52 had colored tulip noses not just Hartmann

Hunter368 · 09-20-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

ah but several aces in JG 52 had colored tulip noses not just Hartmann

Really? Never heard that one before. If you don't me asking Erich what is your source on that one (not doubting what you say I just would like to read it).

Like I said it was the combo of his call name and tulip that apparently gave him away. So he got rid of the tulip to help prevent the Russians from knowing in advance he was there and thus avoiding him.

Now if everyone in the JG 52 painted tulips on their planes it would of been alittle harder for them to pin point Hartmann out. Instead he just got rid of it himself.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 09-20-2006, 11:22 AM

That is true. Not sure who flew it but Bf-109K-4 (Wk. Nr. 332529) had a red tulip in the Czech in May 1945.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 09-20-2006, 11:25 AM

A Source:

Messerschmitt Me-109 Vol. II from 1942 to 1945 with many color profiles.

Hunter368 · 09-20-2006, 11:26 AM

Thanks

Erich · 09-20-2006, 11:41 AM

the multi volume history of JG 52 in the German, Hermann Graf had a red tulip on his machine. No, Hartmann did not have a black tulip in 45 on his G-10 or K-4 as far as I am aware. Ture enough the tulip was a character8stic marking, a dead give away if you will and easy enough to have dozens of Migs/Yaks at the Soviets disposal setting aerial traps and then spring loose

Hunter368 · 09-20-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

the multi volume history of JG 52 in the German, Hermann Graf had a red tulip on his machine. No, Hartmann did not have a black tulip in 45 on his G-10 or K-4 as far as I am aware. Ture enough the tulip was a character8stic marking, a dead give away if you will and easy enough to have dozens of Migs/Yaks at the Soviets disposal setting aerial traps and then spring loose

Agreed I know of at least one ace where after the Russians learnt his call name set a trap for him and killed him. Just like if you were a sniper if you saw some guy wearing a commanders outfit that was a bonus, commanders outfit on was just inviting a sniper to put a bullet in your head. See Stalingrad and the thousands of sniper kills by the Russians. Alot of those were German officers.

pbfoot · 09-30-2006, 09:53 PM

I'd like to add a few more points for my nominee William Barker VC DSO and Bar MC with 2 Bars.... Air Chief Marshall RAF Philip Joubert head of Coastal Command stated "of all the pilots of 2 world wars the greatest was Billy Barker" BGen Billy Mitchell stated to MGen Mason head of US Air Service that Barker was the premier pilot of the first war ....I would call them reasonable endorsements . He was the only allied pilot to shoot down 3 Fokker DVll in a single combat in which he was outnumbered 60.1 and for Hunter this is a local boy who lived in Dauphin and Russell MB

timshatz · 10-02-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbfoot

I'd like to add a few more points for my nominee William Barker VC DSO and Bar MC with 2 Bars.... . He was the only allied pilot to shoot down 3 Fokker DVll in a single combat in which he was outnumbered 60.1 MB

I read about that years ago. Jumped a two seater, knocked it off and got jumped in turn by (what seemed like) half the Imperial German Air Force. Was wounded but still managed to get another three. At least that was the story I read.

Was flying a Sopwith Snipe (successor to the Camel) when it happened.

rjkzoso · 11-10-2006, 10:56 AM

Hello every one I"m new here. It looks like a great site any ways. My pick for best ww1 ace would have to be Werner Voss 1st, Raymond Collishaw 2nd. Alberta Ball would be up there to. Another interesting German ace is Theo Osterkamp he shot down 32 aircraft while flying an Albatros in ww1 and an Me109 in WW2.

Hunter368 · 11-10-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjkzoso

Hello every one I"m new here. It looks like a great site any ways. My pick for best ww1 ace would have to be Werner Voss 1st, Raymond Collishaw 2nd. Alberta Ball would be up there to. Another interesting German ace is Theo Osterkamp he shot down 32 aircraft while flying an Albatros in ww1 and an Me109 in WW2.

Welcome. Its always nice to see another Canuck here (as long you are not a dumbass).