vimy ridge

[Bernhart]

Easter 2007 is the 90th anniversary of the First World War Canadian military attack on Vimy Ridge in France. CBC is commemorating the events with special broadcast coverage, online photo galleries: Four Days in April about the battle and Building the towers about Canada's war monument, and thoughts from a young Canadian student visiting war memorial sites in Europe.

The towering 10-storey white limestone Vimy Memorial Monument near Arras, France, fell into disrepair as rain eroded the soft stone and winters cracked some of the building blocks. After three years of restoration work, which included dismantling and rebuilding much of the structure, the dedication of the restored monument takes place Monday, April 9.


would be nice to be there, it's on CBc over the weekend hope to catch some of it

[pbfoot]

An amazing battle the French had a 150k casualties trying to take it the Brits didn't fare much better it was called impregabable and Canada took it in 4hours and advanced 4 miles the first sucessful major battle of the 1st war .

[timshatz]

I have heard Vimy Ridge called the place where Canada found an identity. For the US, it's probably Valley Forge. The Australians, Galliopoli. The sad thing about it is (and I'm going out on a limb here), I would guess that the average Canadian knows nothing about it. Never seem to see it mentioned.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by timshatz

I have heard Vimy Ridge called the place where Canada found an identity. For the US, it's probably Valley Forge. The Australians, Galliopoli. The sad thing about it is (and I'm going out on a limb here), I would guess that the average Canadian knows nothing about it. Never seem to see it mentioned.

100% correct no one knows about it

but i like what there doing to celebrate it appartently they are going with 1 kid for each casualty wearing dogtags and medals trying to send a relative of a casualty so I have been given to understand. I guess I'll find out Sunday.

Some of the more interesting points of the battle it was the first real scientific and successful attempts of counter battery fire. One of the 1st battles were every man knew where he was supposed to be at what time . The men did not go over the top in line but rather as platoons using the old forgotten strategy of moving and shooting to counter strong points

[Emac44]

Pb well done Canada. Your Vimy Ridge. Our Menin Gate and Menin Road Ypres and Albert. I have a lot of respect for our Canadian Allies. Well done in restoring those monuments at Vimy Ridge. I have 3 words for you Pb


LEST WE FORGET

[rogthedodge]

Originally Posted by Emac44

Pb well done Canada. Your Vimy Ridge. Our Mein Gate and Mein Road Ypres and Albert. I have a lot of respect for our Canadian Allies. Well done in restoring those monuments at Vimy Ridge. I have 3 words for you Pb


LEST WE FORGET

I find that comment sad, ill-informed and quite frankly insulting to the massive sacrifice of the UK, 'other Empire', and French troops in WW1

World War I casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia may help you get a true perspective of the sacrifices by the Allies.

Not to decry the efforts & sacrifices of the Empire troops but you might spare a thought for the 1,000,000 UK and 1,700,000 French dead. More Indians died in WW1 than either Canadians or Australians!

It's not 'Your Vimy Ridge' or 'Our Menin Gate' anymore than it's 'Your Gallipoli' - it's THEIRS' - ie the Empire dead.

More books and less films perhaps?


Lest we forget (them all!)

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by rogthedodge

I find that comment sad, ill-informed and quite frankly insulting to the massive sacrifice of the UK, 'other Empire', and French troops in WW1

World War I casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia may help you get a true perspective of the sacrifices by the Allies.

Not to decry the efforts & sacrifices of the Empire troops but you might spare a thought for the 1,000,000 UK and 1,700,000 French dead. More Indians died in WW1 than either Canadians or Australians!

It's not 'Your Vimy Ridge' or 'Our Menin Gate' anymore than it's 'Your Gallipoli' - it's THEIRS' - ie the Empire dead.

More books and less films perhaps?


Lest we forget (them all!)

It is not an insult to the average soldier but it is a barb directed at your High Command who for the most part were rigid in there thinking

[102first_hussars]

Originally Posted by Bernhart

Easter 2007 is the 90th anniversary of the First World War Canadian military attack on Vimy Ridge in France. CBC is commemorating the events with special broadcast coverage, online photo galleries: Four Days in April about the battle and Building the towers about Canada's war monument, and thoughts from a young Canadian student visiting war memorial sites in Europe.

The towering 10-storey white limestone Vimy Memorial Monument near Arras, France, fell into disrepair as rain eroded the soft stone and winters cracked some of the building blocks. After three years of restoration work, which included dismantling and rebuilding much of the structure, the dedication of the restored monument takes place Monday, April 9.


would be nice to be there, it's on CBc over the weekend hope to catch some of it

Arthur Currie was very clever

The whole battle was a succes, because of the refining of the creeping barrage, more independance given to lower ranks

[trackend]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

It is not an insult to the average soldier but it is a barb directed at your High Command who for the most part were rigid in there thinking

True what was it the Germans said, "Lions led by Donkeys"

[Negative Creep]

I always thought that was a British expression?

[trackend]

I believe you are right NC I stand corrected it looks like it may be attributed to Sir Walter Pipon Braithwaite

[rogthedodge]

Actually the expression 'lions led by donkeys' has never been accurately sourced - most probably used in relation to Italian troops pre-WW1.
It was the title for a highly subjective and very inaccurate book on WW1 by the late Alan Clark - maybe that's confusing you.

I don't wish to decry the Empire effort (as I said!) and it's still recognised & appreciated here but you guys all need to do more research (I really don't want to drive a wedge between former allies / current commonwealth members but you're being disengenous at best):

"The Allied commanders decided to launch another assault in 1917. The duty was given to the still relatively fresh, but previously successful, Canadians. For the first time, all four divisions of the Canadian Corps were brought together. They were joined by the British 5th Infantry Division (in corps reserve), and British artillery, engineer and labour units, bringing the Canadian Corps to a strength of about 170,000 all ranks, of whom 97,184 were Canadians"

From Battle of Vimy Ridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So only 57% of the Canadian corps was actually Canadian!

@ 102, 1stH - you acknowledge, then, that the creeping barrage was fundamental to the sucess - who's artillery?

Currie was an excellent general but at Vimy the Canadian Corps was actually under the command of Byng (a Brit!!) who allowed him the room to flourish and must take a lot of the credit. This fact is often overlooked by many.

Currie only commanded 1st Canadian Div at Vimy so was only in charge of a part of the whole operation.

Hindsight may be 20:20 but it doesn't make good history!

WW1 was an Empire effort (supporting our French allies) and using (or ignoring) the sacrifices of all the troops who fought in common cause to score points is disrespectful to them all.

To be fair it was an Australian I was actually challenging - the received wisdom of WW1 in Oz is slightly twisted and doesn't match up to historical scrutiny. It's understandable given the general anti-Pom feeling there but I can't let incorrect / misleading statements pass uncommented.

[rogthedodge]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

It is not an insult to the average soldier but it is a barb directed at your High Command who for the most part were rigid in there thinking

'fraid not - it was inaccurate and pointed: he cant spell Menin and claims it as 'our' (ie our's) when in fact it commemorates Commonwealth dead with no known graves who died in Flanders before 15/08/17. So not only is he wrong but writing out of history British, Indian, and other Commonwealth (including Canadian!) dead.

He also claims Albert as 'our's' when it was the scene of heroic sacrifice by many commonwealth troops (twice) - mainly Brits.

How would you feel if I claimed Vimy Ridge as a British victory based on the 43% of the Canadian Corps being Brits, most of the Canadians being in fact British-born, and the overall commander being British??

You'd be unhappy - but I would never be so disrespectful

My points above are to emphasise that it was an Empire / Commonwealth effort, sacrifice and ultimate victory

[pbfoot]

In reality the artillery might have had a preponderence of Brits but it was Andrew McNaughton who pioneered counter battery fire , made the artillery calibrate each piece (a rather new doctrine ) the pointy end of the stick and the ones that took the ridge were Canadians. Yes Byng was a Brit who flourished working with the Canadians but he was also open to ideas something Haig could never claim

[Emac44]

Well Rog you find what I said insulting. it wasn't meant to be but me paying tribute to our gallant Canadian Allies. If you find that insulting than there is nothing I can say or do. However having said that Rog I have made no reference to French or British Troops killed during WW1 because this thread was began to inform us of the Canadians at Vimy Ridge. And as for your reference about Gallipoli it was the turning point for Australia and New Zealand to be recognised as nations during WW1. Due also to the fact The Gallipoli Campaign was an absolute failure planned and executed by inept British and French Generals and decided by the First Sea Lord Winston Churchill. You woinder why Australians have a poor opinion of British generalship after Australian and New Zealand Troops had witnessed debacle after debacle of missed opportunities bad leadership personal squabbles betweeh Higher Command. And Haig wasteful tactics and inept abilitiy and continued usage of men against barbed wire and machine guns. And you wonder why Australians and New Zealanders continued that poor view into WW2 of British High Command. It was by no means directed at the average Tommy or Airman or Sailor but at British High Command piss poor attitude during both World Wars. No matter how you want to view it Rog British High Command during all of World War 1 and parts of World War 2 was inadequate badly managed more concerned about personal reputations and bad leadership to the extreme it cost men their lives. If British High Command had decided to command instead of personal infighting and personal reputations more men would have been spared than the wasteful tactics that are apparent in WW1.

As I said my tributes were directed at our Gallant Canadian Allies at Vimy Ridge. Rog if you had read more into that than was expressed then its your problem not mine. As for insulting comments. You had began those yourself with some what disparging remarks about Canadians and Australians during WW1. I do know of the Indian losses during WW1 but I know of the British regard for Indian Troops during WW1 and WW2 and it wasn't expectantly high. But that isn't so surprising as British High Command didn't have any such high expectations of any Colonial Troops as they referred to them whether they be Canadians Australians South Africans or New Zealanders etc etc. It appears from your comments that you mirror said opinions from British High Command Rog. Get use to the idea Rog the Empire has gone