Who do you think shot down the Red Baron?

[Dac]

I voted for Popkin, I also think Richthoven's head injury played a part in his death. As FBJ points out he was an ambush hunter and normally would have broken off his attack long before he was brought over the dangerous front lines at a low altitude.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

It's interesting how in a way Richthofen and Roy were both trying to do the same thing. Keep a friend, or brother in Richthofen's case, from dying. Except the Baron happened to be the unlucky pilot flying over enemy lines and not Roy.

[faf_476]

His death was horrible, but we should also thank that his fokker plane was not caught in fire and landed his plane swiftly, but then he died of wounds...

because of his death, the Allied power esp. the French were now compatible because of this terrible ace loss. And coz of this they fought the germans bravely...!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Huh? I dont quite understand what you are saying.

[Emac44]

well i will add my 2 cents. was Aussie Gunners from the ground accordingly to medical reports done at the time. no way brown could have fired the fatal shot but the story about canadians killing him that is certainly news to me. As far as i knew the Baron came down near Australian Infantry lines. Body taken to nearest RFC aerodrome etc and buried with full military honours and funeral with Australian Infantrymen forming the firing party in salute

[Dernancourt]

I have voted for Sgt Popkin. My Fathers Father, (my grandfather) Henry (Harry) Heywood, was in the 24th Machine gun company with Cedric Popkin. Grandpa, had a first hand account of the event. Over the meal table for decades after the war, he told his four children of the war events he took part in. Much detail was passed on to his children, (My father being one). Grandpa believed that Popkin shot the bullet that killed Baron Manfred Von Richthofen. On all the previous approaches by The Baron, in his aircraft, the soldiers on the ground headed for their dugouts for safety from air-fire. But Popkin got tired of this, and on this occasion stayed out on his Vickers and proceeded to fire at the plane. He (Popkin) was described as a bit of a risk taker, by Grandpa, and wanted to put an end to the threat imposed by The Red Baron. Dale Titler in his book has a copy of the photo in the London Museum of the four soldiers in the 24th machine gun company. Harry is next to Cedric in the middle. I would be interested to know the names of the other two soldiers.

[The Basket]

PTSD and the head wound were certainly factors.

Richtofen broke all his own rules when chasing May.

He was far too low...his guns were jamming...deep inside enemy lines...split from his comrades.

He was asked to retire after his head wound...but continued. The wound was caused by a round fired from 1200 feet away. talk about ya lucky shot. His later photos always show him wearing a skull bandage

[Njaco]

Over the years I saw docus on History and PBS with angles, timelines, etc. and I have a few books on the Baron. I'd say it was Aussie from ground fire.

[HoHun]

Hi Welch,

Thanks for the transcript! Popkin, or a rifleman near Popkin's position - at least, that's my conclusion from the information presented above.

>SUZANNE FISCHER: "I think the Red Baron's real achievement was his legacy of squadron tactics. And it wasn't just that he developed them, but he actually wrote them down so that people could use them and still do use them today."

Has anyone ever seen tactical guidelines written by von Richthofen? I wonder if this might be a misinterpretation of the guidelines put down by Richthofen's teacher Boelcke ...

By the way, Richthofen's "Everything else is rubbish" actually reads "Everything else is nonsense" ('Unsinn') in the original and directly addresses tactically worthless orders to fly at a certain time at a specified altitude and over a certain position in order to interdict enemy air activity.

(The quote is from "Der Rote Kampfflieger" ... being a war-time book obviously written by an anonymous hack writer, it's a bit short on tactical detail, but I thought the sober and somewhat pessimistic post-script von Richthofen added after receiving his head-wound is quite fascinating ... marked contrast to the main part of the book!)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[joy17782]

yep it was the aussies, and richtoven did break his own rules read the book from his brother he was,nt the same man he was , he was hurt , but i do think the aussies got him. history channels investagation they prove the aussie got him

[pbfoot]

Good lord guys they can't figure out who shot JFK with sound video etc and were going to solve an 80 yr old mystery in the confusion of war with 1000's of rounds flinging themselves about from sundrie angles at at targets that bounce with the slightest puff of wind

[Graeme]

A little sideline...

In 1973 the Australian War Memorial (AWM) proudly announced that it now had possession of the original identification plate from Richthofen's downed Dr I. An article was published in Air Enthusiast by Gp Capt Keith Issacs explaining the find (donated by ex-Gunner G Ridgway-at the time one of the last surviving witnesses of the crash) and how a previous plate in their possession was now proven to be a fake...



Soon after the magazine was published its editors were inundated with letters from experts around the world pointing out that the AWM was now in possession of TWO fakes. They explained their reasoning based on the size of the plate, lettering, spelling, etc. One wag suggested that there were so many fake plates circulating around the world that he theorised that Richthofen's plane wasn't shot down, it simply "fell out of the sky loaded with genuine brass military identification plates".

In the end the editors suggested that all further correspondence be directed to the AWM. I don't know if it was ever resolved or if the 'real' plate ever surfaced.

[pbfoot]

The seat is a museum in Toronto

[Arsenal VG-33]

Isn't Richthofen buried in Berlin? I think you can find it on the findagrave website. Lucky his body wasn't blown to smithereens in No-Man's-Land, which is probably what happened to French ace Guynemer, who has no known grave.

[Njaco]

I think its the same graveyard as Werner Moelders.