Antitank Rifles and MGs. 1930-1945.

[CharlesBronson]

Hi CharlesBronson, are you familiar with Lahti L-39? I've uploaded a couple of pictures of it:

Very nice pictures, I will wrote about the Lathi when I finish the german rifles.

Great job Charles. Very good posts.

Imagine these things produced a ton of dust when fired, the muzzle being that close to the ground.

Thanks, and sure thy do, just imagine that muzzle brake so close to the groud in the Solos 20 mm, nasty, not to mention the effect on the shooter ears

[Maharg]

Excellent post Charles, thank you very much.

[CharlesBronson]

Thank you for your post.


Panzerbüchse 39.




After the production of the Pzb 38 was dropped a more simple and cheaper desing was choosed instead.

The Pzb 39 was a single shot, manually loaded weapon that discarded the complicated semiautomatic breech. The lock mechanism was a simple falling block commanded by the pistol grip, this action also cocked the firing pin.

It had an overall length of 162.0 cm; weight was reduced to 12.6 kg. It's performance data was basically the same as that of the PzB 38.

Pzb 39 with the grip forward (open chamber)



To increase the practical rate of fire, two cartridge-holding cases containing 10 rounds each could be attached to both sides of the weapon near the breech - these were not magazines feeding the weapon, they simply enabled the gunner to extract the cartridges (that he still had to manually insert into the gun) from the conveniently placed magazines.




In the Pzb 39 a new round was introduced this was Patrone 318 S.m.K.(H)-Rs-L'spur, wich means Spitzer mit Kern (hart), pointed with core (hard), the "hard " thing means that the bullet had a tugsten carbide core. Rs is for Reisstoff, or irritant because it carry a small irritant gas pill.



This was made with the overoptimistically target to make the tank crew leave his vehicle after being hit...in the practice the irritant content was so small that nobody noticed that. L'spur was for "Leuchtspur" ("bright trace" = "tracer") indicating the bullet had a small tracer in its rear.

In Afrika.



In the todays point of view it seems incredible that such a small caliber was chosen, but in 1939 with the majority of the tanks with armor ranging from 10-25 mm it look like a razonable choice.

At a typical Vo of slightly over 1,200m/s the projectile penetrated 30mm of steel at a range of 100m and still up to 20mm at 300m (both at 0° slope) and was accepted as the standard anti-tank rifle ammunition to be used by all weapons of that type.

Production of the Patrone 318 ran until August 1942.

Paratroopers in france in 1940, the Pzb 39 at the shoulder.



Technical data:

Overall length: 162cm;
barrel length 108.5cm;
total weight (incl. bipod and carrying sling but no magazines)
12.6kg; weight empty 11.6kg; total weight of magazine (loaded) 1.09kg; weight magazine (empty) 0.25kg; practical rate of fire: 10 shots/min. Ammunition:

Patrone 318; Vo 1,210 m/s; armor penetration 30mm of homogeneus plate at 100m with the Tugsten core and 28 mm with the steel core bullet.

Some of these rifles were mounted in armored vehicles such as the Sd.Kfz 222 and the engineers vehicle Sd.Kfz 251/7




568 PzB 39 were used by the german army in the invasion of Poland; two years later, at the beginning of the war against russia, 25,298 PzB 39 were in use by german troops; total production form March 1940 to November 1941, when production ceased, was 39,232 rifles.

[CharlesBronson]

Errrrr

Paratroopers in france in 1940, the Pzb 39 at the shoulder

It should be Pzb 38 at the shoulder.

Aditional images of the Pzb 39.

[CharlesBronson]

Experimental 7,92x94mm rifles.


The germans were quite unsatisfied with the performance of their tank rifles. It was obvious that other tank rifles were to be produced if this weapon type was to have any practical use. Several projects were undertaken in 1940 by several companies, all using the Patrone 318.




Gustloff-Werke presented two self-loading AT rifles - model 42 (later known as PzB.40 G) and model 44. Rifle model 42 had 5 different variations. It was gas-operated. Both models, capable only of semi-auto fire, had different mechanisms of locking the barrel. In one case it was wedge locking and in other case it was done by lever. Both models were magazine-feed from 8-round magazine.

Gustloff PzB 40.




Magazine receiver was made on the left side of the rifle's body. For decreasing the size of a rifle in stowed position (due to request from para forces command), rifle's butt folded to the left side, decreasing the overall length from 1660mm to 1460mm. Barrel length - 1085mm.

Practical fire rate of Gustloff-werke rifles was up to 32 shots per minute, with an initial bullet speed of 1150m/s.

Effective fire range was no more than 300m. First model 42 weighted 18kg, second model 44 - 13.5kg. In these rifles were used components from other small arms, which production was already mastered, for example, the pivot-frame and butt from MG.34.


The Waffenfabrik Carl walther in Zella-Mehlis built the Modell 40 / PzB 40 W, a semiautomatic weapon with a curved magazine for 8 rounds. The weapons resemble very much to a modern assault rifle but a lot bigger.


Another Self-loading AT rifle , the model 41 was made by firm Mauser-Werke from town Oberndorf-am-Nekkar. It was gas-operated. . It was magazine-feeded, sector-type magazine contained 8 rounds and was inserted into receiver from left side.
Lock was capable of only semi-automatic fire with practical fire rate of 32 shots per minute. The rifle was partially made using punched metallic components. Overall length was 1670mm, barrel was 1085mm long; rifle weighted 12.5kg.

Mauser M41.




H. Krieghoff made not less interesting AT rifle model 43 (also known as PzB.40 K). Zul armsmasters presented seven prototypes with differences. They were gas-operated with wedge barrel locking. Most part of rifle components (excluding barrel and lock), was made out of steel sheet by punching. 8-round box-shaped magazine was fastened on the left side of the rifle. Rifle weighted 14kg, it's overall length was 1570mm (1300mm with folded butt), while the barrel itself was 1150mm long.

There were thorough many-sided tests of new AT rifles which took place in october 1940 for finding out which rifle was best.


In the end all there rifles were deprived to enter in large scale production due the increase in armor achieved by allied tanks designs, the 8mm caliber despite his ultra velocity was no more competitive. The next stage will be the 13 and 15mm guns.



Sources (until now):

Panzerbuchse Anti-Tank Rifle

Panzerbüchsen




MUNICION.ORG

[timshatz]

Honkin' big rifles. Jeez, imagine getting assigned to deal with that thing.

[CharlesBronson]

Why not, it must be a lot of fun shooting those, specially the big 20s

Antitank rifles of the USSR (I)

In the early 1930s the russian began the develpment of a heavy machinegun caliber to provide the infantry some means to combat armored vehicles. Following a similar path of the Germans with the 13mm T.u.F and the americans with the 12,7x99mm (. 50 BMG) they selected a 12,7 caliber round placed in a 108 mm long case.

This cartrigde entered in service in with the heavy MG Degtyarev-Shpagin Dshk-38. At the same time several arms designers were put in charge to develop a new antitank rifle to use this round.

One of the first was the PTR Schcholochowa in 1938.



The weapon was very simple, it was more or less a copy of the WW1 Mauser tankgewehr, a manually operated bolt action rifle with 1,61 m long. It incorporates a single chamber muzzle brake and 2 round fixed magazine.



The muzzle velocity of the 12,7 russian is some 820 m/s and the armor piercing round B-30 defeat 3/4 inches of rolled plate (19mm) at 200 meters.

Some other designs were summited to the Soviet army, however in 1940 the soviet military observers became very worried about the relatively quick victory of the german army in France, since they were well aware of the armor thickness of the French tanks.
Seeing the destroyed Chars 2 bis and Somuas in the german newsreel they tough the germans had heavily up-armored his panzers.
In this way any desing based in the 12,7x108 caliber was quickly dropped, a more powerful, heavier round was needed.

[rogthedodge]

I always though it was Boyes but Boys seems to be correct.

I saw you could fire one at some event in the UK but it was £5 a round!!!

Apologies if you've seen this but here's a site dedicated to AT rifles

UK & Canadian

BTW Check out the Irish soldiers with 'German' helmets - very strange!

[CharlesBronson]

Thanks, I going to give a look.

[CharlesBronson]

Aditional images of the Degtyarev PTRD

Recoil operated chamber opening.



PTRD in the move:




Size:




Shooter-loader team.







As AAA weapon.




The bullet B-32, 1000 meters per second muzzle speed, penetration 30mm armor at 150 meters.

[CharlesBronson]

The PTRS and PTRD was also tried as a makeshift heavy sniper adding PU 3x scopes.




The extremely heavy recoil wasnt healty for the sight calibration.

[CharlesBronson]

PTRS and PTRD in action:




Some translation of russian sources:

ÏÐÎÒÈÂÎÑÒÎßÍÈÅ: Áèòâà ïîä Ìîñêâîé - Ïðîòèâîòàíêîâûå ðóæüÿ

....The baptism of fire anti-tank gun passed on 16 November, 1941, near the Moscow, in the region of the villages of the Petelins - Shiryaevo, eight antitank riflemen, shooting with 150 - 200 m, destroyed two average German tanks. Subsequent combat confirmed the high qualities of weapon. Thus, in combat for the station meadow in one of the hit enemy tanks proved to be 18 through holes....

As early as 1938 was provided for the application of guns not only against the tanks, but also against other purposes: armored carriers, armored cars, machine guns, antitank guns.
In the course of World War II this list was extended. PTR repeatedly shot at the enemy aircraft, but antitank rifleman A. Denisov 14 and on 15 July, 1943, under Orel brought down two Fascist bombers.(Perhaps it was Ju-87)
Anti-tank guns for the Soviet partisans proved to be present finding. For them they were, in fact, only weapon against the german tankettes and the armored cars.

The company of antitank riflemen to death stood on one of the sections. When reinforcement arrived in the place of struggle, it found terrible picture.
Two German tanks thickened on the positions, the corpses of tankers next were dragged along.
The body of Soviet antitank rifleman lay between the broken caterpillars of tank. Another soldier, riddled by the bullets of machine gun, lay on the earth, strongly compressing anti-tank gun, directed to the side of the hit tanks. Around everything was black from the fire and the earth reversed by projectiles

Another use for the 14,5 mm guns. In this Ferdinad pictured in Kursk,the soviet infantrymen try to break the tracks with his rifles.

[CharlesBronson]

Kawamura Type 97 cal. 20 mm





Most japanese small arms of ww2 are not know for his excellent characteristics, however this antitank rifle probed to be a sound and reliable weapon.

The desing of this heavy antitank rifle belong to the ing. Masawa Kawamura who start the development in 1935.

For 1937 the desing was completed and the weapon was officially adopted for the army in 1937 ( some were bought for the Navy also). The working mechanism of this rifle is semiautomatic with an rotating bolt wich is gas operated. The loading is made from the top (bren like) and in accept an 7 shot magazine.

The weight is about 55 kg , in order to carry it quickly 2 handlebars resembleming a bike could be atached in the front and the rear pad. For aditional protection in the shooting and 4 mm steel shield can be added, in this case the weight climbs to 66 kg.

The weapon is very powerful, it shoots a 20mm ( 20 mm round x125mm case) specially designed cartrigde, the muzzle velocity is about 835 m/s and is stated that it could penetrate the light M-3 stuart from 150 meters away.


In 1943 the rifle was reworked to spare raw materials lowering the weight with handles to 59 kg.



The crew of one rifle was 4 men, gunner, loader, 2 ammunition carrier. A sqad consisted of two rifle teams, 1 squad leader (NCO) and 1 runner.

During transport the rifle was disassembled in two parts and carried by three horses with 150 shots. With cavalry units the rifle was loaded on 2 horses with 105 shots to increase mobility.



The type 97 ap-round wit a muzzle velocity of 865 m/sec could penetrate 30 mm/90° on 350 m and 20 mm/90° on 700 m. Additionally the type 98 20 X125mm he-round could be fired against soft targets like field fortifications etc. The main charge was HMX and Nitropenta. Maximum range with the type 98 round was 4000 m.

[CharlesBronson]

The 20 mm Lahti L-39 antitank rifle:



The design and production of a domestic anti-tank rifle for the Finnish Army was delayed in the late 1930s by doubts and differences of opinion over which caliber to adopt. Initially a 13 mm caliber was the favorite alternative but in 1939 a decision was also reached to also construct two 20 mm weapons for tests in mid 1939.

The design work was given to Aimo Lahti who had two 20 mm prototypes produced during the
summer. They were then tested. Theoretically, the difference of muzzle velocity and penetration between the 13 mm and 20 mm wasn't big, but the 20 mm round had superior fragmentation
effect when it penetrated the armor.

On August 11th 1939, the L-39 performed well, fulfilling all requirements, and on the basis of these superior results the 20 mm weapon was selected and further development of the 13 mm rifle was
dropped.
On September 6th, 1939, General Heinrichs finally proposed that the production of this good weapon should start immediately.

Before the production of the weapon was started, the Winter War broke out, as the Soviet Red Army attacked on November 30th, 1939. The two L-39 prototypes were first used on the Isthmus front*, near the Lake Ladoga. The weapons were issued to the AT-platoon of JR 28, and the platoon was subordinate to Os.Metsäpirtti (detachment Metsäpirtti), which was part of the delaying / covering troops of the Rautu (R-) group. The two prototype weapons were used with great success against the light Soviet tanks, and the weapon was reported to be effective at ranges of up to 400 metres

* Source "Marskin Panssarintuhoajat" by E.Käkelä. Some other sources say that they were used in Ladoga Karelia 2 men were required to carry this weapon off road. During winter, a sledge was used, and on road marches a vehicle was used if available.

After the Winter War

Later on, the L-39 received improvements e.g. night sights, AA-sights and a targeting scope.
In the attack phase in 1941 the 20 mm round proved to be too weak against most types of tanks. As the L-39 proved to be a very accurate weapon it was often used to destroy enemy gun positions, mg-nests etc. at long range.
Beginning on 1944, the L-39 was also used against the armored ground attack planes. A new pillar mount was designed and the rifle was fitted with extra recoil spring and a fixed striker for full automatic operation. This full automatic AA-weapon was designated as L-39/44.





Antitank weapons used by the Finns in Winter War, Part 2


Aditional Pictures:




A happy US citizen with his Lahti, ( you better dont have an argument with him )

[CharlesBronson]

The Lahti 20mm firing high explosive against a steel plate 14mm thick, 9/16 " for imperial measure lovers.

YouTube - Lahti L-39 cal. 20 mm

L-39/44 full auto AAA variant of the L-39.