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Best/Favourate Tank in the west

WW2 General Discuss Best/Favourate Tank in the west in the World War II - General forums; That my friend is typical in many threads here when someone strikes a point....


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View Poll Results: Whats is the Best/your favourate tank from in North Africa
Cruiser MKIV 1 1.09%
A12 Matilda II 6 6.52%
Crusader Cruiser 1 1.09%
Valentine MKIII 3 3.26%
A22 Churchill 5 5.43%
Cromwell 5 5.43%
M3 Grant 4 4.35%
M4 Sherman 11 11.96%
M10 1 1.09%
M 13/40 2 2.17%
PzKpfw IIF 0 0%
PzKpfw III 2 2.17%
Pzkpfw IV 13 14.13%
PzKpfw VI (Tiger ) 32 34.78%
StuG III 6 6.52%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-08-2006, 09:26 AM   #91
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That my friend is typical in many threads here when someone strikes a point.
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fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

"wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2"

"ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life"
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:01 AM   #92
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That my friend is typical in many threads here when someone strikes a point.
Yup he has a total of 22 posts, none of them about World War 2 aircraft, he is disregards other people points, disrespectful to long standing members. He does not answer questions that are convenient for him to answer b/c they prove him wrong.

Seems like a pattern of other newbies who lasted a very short time here. They come here thinking they know everything and after they are proven wrong they never come back. None of us miss them here. Lets see if he comes back with a new attitude, if he does not his stay here could get rough for him.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:00 AM   #93
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Well I have posted facts about the armour and penetration ability of the tanks guns... that is proof eneogh for me.
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fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

"wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2"

"ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life"
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:13 AM   #94
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Well I have posted facts about the armour and penetration ability of the tanks guns... that is proof eneogh for me.


Agreed.

How does it go......."you can't argue with a fool".
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:13 PM   #95
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Chris what I find funny is that I ask a simple question and he will not answer it. That in itself tells me something.

Well I chose what and how I reply. I do not have an opinion on the matter. It is not germain to the thrust of my posts and whatever you think is important may not have the same resonance for me. Is that clear enough?


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Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet View Post
decoys was a common tactic by atleast the American Tank units and they would send out one sherman that would get the attention of a Tiger and then the rest of the unit would come around and flank it and hit it in the vulnerable spots.
US units did not even see a Tiger until rather late in the 1944 campaign. I see nothing other than' common belief' to sustain such an assertion. I am, however, open to persuasion if you can show a reference..

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Originally Posted by Hunter368 View Post
Yup he has a total of 22 posts, none of them about World War 2 aircraft,
Strange that I make no mention of aicraft in a thread about 'Best/Favourate (sic)Tank in the west '?
Perhaps it can be explained why this would be a barrier to expressing an opinion ?





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Originally Posted by Hunter368 View Post
He does not answer questions that are convenient for him to answer b/c they prove him wrong.
There are no absolutes in this world. Even the most extreme standpoint will have arguments in its favour. This desire to utterly demolish your opponent indicates a failure to fully grasp the definition of 'opinion'

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Originally Posted by Hunter368 View Post
Seems like a pattern of other newbies who lasted a very short time here. They come here thinking they know everything and after they are proven wrong they never come back.
I am far from a 'newbie' in this area. Unlike many here I do not profess to 'know everything' and you vastly inflate your ability to 'prove' me wrong


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Originally Posted by Hunter368 View Post
None of us miss them here. Lets see if he comes back with a new attitude, if he does not his stay here could get rough for him.
Rough for me? I think you may be the one 'proved wrong'


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Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet View Post
Well I have posted facts about the armour and penetration ability of the tanks guns... that is proof eneogh for me.
Penetration tables are one of the most contentious areas of research. What most people mean is they find a set of statistics that suit their beliefs.
Others with another set of values challenge them and we are subjected to pages of mind numbing data about slope(from horizontal or vertical) nickle content, brittleness, shatter gap, overmatching and downright lies.

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Originally Posted by Hunter368 View Post
Agreed.

How does it go......."you can't argue with a fool".
Oh now we enter the more intellectual areas of your expertise!
You do not know me other than you 'think' you have superior understanding and insight. I sincerely hope you are able to sustain this elevated opinion of your ability.
Perhaps you could drop in in some of my postings at

Axis History Forum :: Viewing profile

Maybe you could show me how 'foolish' I was in say this thread there.

Axis History Forum :: View topic - Whose Tiger is it?

Could I ask if those with greater understanding than me could add to the threads conclusions?
A peer review from some real 'experts' would be greatly appreciated.


German speakers can call me to task here:

Suchen - Panzer-Archiv
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Old 11-08-2006, 02:18 PM   #96
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m kenny,

Lets see where to start, I will start here:

You say "Well I chose what and how I reply. I do not have an opinion on the matter. It is not germain to the thrust of my posts and whatever you think is important may not have the same resonance for me. Is that clear enough?"

I say yes it is very clear, you do not want to answer my question b/c if you do it will prove you wrong if you say "Tiger/Panther/Tiger2 or if you answer picking the Sherman then you are nuts. 1 vs 1 a Sherman dies a very high percentage of the time.

You say "Strange that I make no mention of aicraft in a thread about 'Best/Favourate (sic)Tank in the west '?
Perhaps it can be explained why this would be a barrier to expressing an opinion ?"

Yes the thread is about tanks but the vast amount of the site is about World War 2 planes......mmmmmm funny thats why they call it www.ww2aircraft.net ! Does that mean we can only enjoy your imput on this forum if it has to do with tanks?

You say "There are no absolutes in this world. Even the most extreme standpoint will have arguments in its favour. This desire to utterly demolish your opponent indicates a failure to fully grasp the definition of 'opinion'"

I agree there is nothing wrong with opinions, but you did not just state an opinion here. You are debating trying to prove your point, if you want to post a opinion fine then don't debate. If you want to debate, post a opinion and debate. I do not wish to utterly demolish you, I am just debating your opinion. By doing so I asked you a very simple question that you have not answered b/c it proves you point wrong. You are just to proud or stuborn to admit it, thats not my problem.

You say "I am far from a 'newbie' in this area. Unlike many here I do not profess to 'know everything' and you vastly inflate your ability to 'prove' me wrong"

Seems you do not listen or except other people's opinion when they differ from yours....seems pretty arrogant to me. I inflate my ability to prove you wrong? Nope you do that for me.

You say "Rough for me? I think you may be the one 'proved wrong'"

You have no idea how bad it could get for you if you tick off the wrong people here. You will learn or be banned I know that forsure. If you think you are going to come here with a attitude and talk to Mods or long term members with disrespect.....well it will be funny watching you try. I welcome you to try.

You say "Oh now we enter the more intellectual areas of your expertise!
You do not know me other than you 'think' you have superior understanding and insight. I sincerely hope you are able to sustain this elevated opinion of your ability."

Sarcasm is one of my most loveable triats.....thank you. If I see a spade, I call it a spade. I think you have "tone" and are "disrespectful" to our members, you dismiss their opinion out of hand. That is my only problem with you. I don't care if it is German or Allied tank, best is the best. You came to this thread with your baised opinion and can't except it when people prove you wrong. If you posted a opinion and someone proved you wrong and you said ok, then I would have no problem with you (and no one else would either).

I never claimed to have superior understanding then you in anything. You just keep giving examples of a single action here and there and call it proof. Thats not proof those are isolated examples of where a weaker tank was able to take out a better tank. Numbers do prove that Tiger/Panther/Tiger2 tanks are better 1 vs 1. Where the Germans failed is that they believed that their superior tanks (in limited numbers) could take on inferior Allied tanks (in vast numbers). Germans were proven wrong, Allies swamped Germans with huge numbers of tanks and the Germans could not kill them fast enough. Allies had better plan but the Germans had a better tank when you compare them 1 vs 1.

A different example is if you take the Heavy weight champ (Tiger/Panther/Tiger2 tank) in boxing and ten normal guys (Sherman tank). Then put them in fight Heavy weight champ vs 10 normal guys. The 10 normal guys are going to win most times. But if you take the Heavy weight champ vs 1 normal guy.....the normal guy gets his butt handed to him the most times.

As far as your replies to Chris's posts go I will let him answer for himself.
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Old 11-08-2006, 02:51 PM   #97
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I say yes it is very clear, you do not want to answer my question
Yes, I am frightened of your cunning trap.

Quote:
b/c if you do it will prove you wrong if you say "Tiger/Panther/Tiger2
Another example where your superior understanding allows you to trap the unwary?


Quote:
or if you answer picking the Sherman then you are nuts.
Oh I see. Disagree with you and you are 'nuts'.


Quote:
Yes the thread is about tanks but the vast amount of the site is about World War 2 planes......mmmmmm funny thats why they call it www.ww2aircraft.net ! Does that mean we can only enjoy your imput on this forum if it has to do with tanks?
I am a firm believer that one should only offer an opinion if one is au fait with the subject.

Quote:
I agree there is nothing wrong with opinions, but you did not just state an opinion here. You are debating trying to prove your point, if you want to post a opinion fine then don't debate. If you want to debate, post a opinion and debate. I do not wish to utterly demolish you, I am just debating your opinion.
Now you can read my mind ?


Quote:
By doing so I asked you a very simple question that you have not answered b/c it proves you point wrong.
My every utterance plunges me deeper into the pit!



Quote:
Seems you do not listen or except other people's opinion when they differ from yours....seems pretty arrogant to me. I inflate my ability to prove you wrong? Nope you do that for me.
As you said earlier, anyone daring to disagree with you is 'nuts'.

Quote:
You have no idea how bad it could get for you if you tick off the wrong people here. You will learn or be banned I know that forsure. If you think you are going to come here with a attitude and talk to Mods or long term members with disrespect.....
Oh sorry, I give in .You are right and I am 'nuts'


Quote:
well it will be funny watching you try. I welcome you to try.
A quote from a Dirty Harry film ?

Quote:
I think you have "tone" and are "disrespectful" to our members, you dismiss their opinion out of hand.
Well I am nuts


Quote:
You came to this thread with your baised opinion and can't except it when people prove you wrong.
Proved me wrong?.........Those whom the Gods wish to destroy...............

Quote:
If you posted a opinion and someone proved you wrong and you said ok, then I would have no problem with you (and no one else would either).
Your arrogance is breathtaking. Someone proved me 'wrong' and the only course is for me to submit and cry uncle!
Did it ever enter your head that you might be wrong.....naw, probably not.

Anyway is it possible you can give me a link where I can see some examples of your posts on other Forums please?

Now the above is a direct question and we know your opinion on those who dodge such simple requests.

It would be interesting to examine the history of your research in this area
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Old 11-08-2006, 03:32 PM   #98
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kenny kenny,

At least you admit when you are trapped and you can't worm your way out by side stepping / avoiding questions. Thank you

By disagreeing with me does not mean you are nuts. This is why I think you are nuts if you choose the Sherman:

TigerII - 69.8 tonnes
180mm frontal armor
80mm side armor
88 mm KwK 43 L/71 main gun

vs

Sherman - 35 tons
2.8 inches front armor
1.6 inches side armor
75mm main gun

Those are just two models of each kind. There is others we can compare (different models of all Shermans, Tigers, Tiger2 or Panther) if you want.
In a 1 vs 1 fight you think it is better to choose the Sherman?

You want a Dirty Harry quote? sure ok. Go ahead Punk make my day.

You said "Someone proved me 'wrong' and the only course is for me to submit and cry uncle!"

Nope just you stop repeating isolated examples of a Sherman destroying a Tiger or Panther and calling that proof will do fine. Thanks

You said "Anyway is it possible you can give me a link where I can see some examples of your posts on other Forums please?"

Mmmmm does posting your biased opinions on more than one forum make you an expert? I guess you have that one on me. Well done. Azzholes are just like opinions, everyone has one and they are free. See its easy to answer a person's question. I am not about to list my collection of hundreds of books on WW2.

But you still have not answered my first question other than saying "Well I chose what and how I reply. I do not have an opinion on the matter."

Sounds more like you are afraid to answer it. Seems you want to dodge my question by trying to argue with me. Answer my question its really very simple.

In a 1 vs 1 battle Sherman vs Tiger/Panther/Tiger2 which would you choose? All other things being equal ie terrain etc. Which would you choose? This is not brain surgery, just a simple question. You are so eager to have your opinion heard why do you refuse to give it here? Which would you choose? Show us your expert opinion here. I have stated my choice, I would take the Panther/Tiger/Tiger2 any day over the Sherman. Which would you choose?
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:03 PM   #99
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This is almost better than the political threads.
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:04 PM   #100
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Maybe this one will be closed also.
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:06 PM   #101
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Don't make me pray again. He will begin to suspect my requests are trivial.
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:08 PM   #102
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Don't make me pray again. He will begin to suspect my requests are trivial.
If you are the little boy who cried.......who is the wolf?
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:11 PM   #103
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Lanc
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:15 PM   #104
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Lanc

He is always looking for sheep?
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:25 PM   #105
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