Best Rifle Of WWII - Page 4 - Aircraft of World War II

102first_hussars · 07-25-2006, 12:03 AM

Actually "Sturm" means Storm, Storm-rifle.

schwarzpanzer · 07-26-2006, 08:07 AM

If you storm a position, what do you do? - You Assault it. (& pepper it

)

German doesn't always translate directly into English.

The StG was originally the MKb MachinenKarabiner - Machine Carbine.

The problem was, the Nazi's were infighting and the Luftwaffe thought it could score Brownie points with Hitler with it's FG42. The Army the same with it's MKb. This one-upmanship went on and on and Hitler got sick of this and ordered an end to it. He thought making a weapon less powerful than his old G98 was pointless (though ironically, so was the K98k).

The soldiers were crying out for the MKb, but it wasn't allowed. A new MachinenPistole (SMG) appeared in 1943 - the MP43. It wasn't an SMG at all, but an upgraded (& banned) Mkb42!

- If anyone is going to bury an Assault Weapon, I'd think it'd be hippies, not Hitler!

Anyway, glowing reports came from the front lines about the new weapon. Hitler took a look at the 'new' weapon and apparently was furious. He eventually came round though.

SturmGewehr was merely a catchy name. It is unknown whether it was made up to sell it to Hitler, or whether it was made up by him for Morale/Propaganda purposes.

The history of the earlier Fedorov Avtomat Assault Rifle is very similar...

Joe2 · 02-03-2007, 04:26 AM

The Lee-Enfield rifle was basicly made in the 1890s and almost made it to the 1990s, nearly 100 years, so it must have been a good gun.

Emac44 · 02-03-2007, 04:41 AM

303 bolt action Lee Enfield my vote sorry to be late. especially backed by sheer Aussie Infantry with fixed bayonets fighting the Bloody Japanese and giving what bloody for

Soren · 02-04-2007, 07:09 AM

The Enfield was used until the early 90's as a Sniper-rifle, the K98K was used as a Sniper-rifle up until 1997 by the Isreali's. However both these would be at a disadvantage in close Urban settings where most wars are fought, the Garand and Gewehr 43 possessing far more firepower.

renrich · 02-06-2007, 05:27 PM

The Garand. In fact it would be an outstanding weapon today in Iraq.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 02-07-2007, 09:45 AM

Why do you say that? I served in Iraq and I would not even think about using a Garand there...

renrich · 02-07-2007, 05:29 PM

The reason I say that is that I understand that the troops in Iraq have in some cases traded in the M16 for the old M14 because they like the greater pentration and longer range of the 7.62 Nato round. I qualified in the army both with the Garand and with the M14 and I think I would prefer the Garand in combat although I fortunately never had any combat experience.

timshatz · 02-07-2007, 07:10 PM

Are the .308 and the 30-06 that much different balistically? Not tossing a dig out, honestly don't know. Have fired them both (in different weapons at close ranges) but found no substantial difference. About the same weight round too (around 140 grains).

Maybe the difference comes in at longer ranges?

Soren · 02-07-2007, 10:04 PM

The 30-06 has the same ballistics as the .308, however with a heavier projectile. With the same weight projectile you will achieve a slightly flatter trajectory with the 30-06.

However if I had to choose between either the Garand or the M-14 for use in Iraq, then I'd definitely choose the M-14. You've got the same ballisctics but with more rounds. But if its long range shots a bolt action is always the best choice - with the exception of a few semi auto's such as the PSG-1 perhaps.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 02-08-2007, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renrich

The reason I say that is that I understand that the troops in Iraq have in some cases traded in the M16 for the old M14 because they like the greater pentration and longer range of the 7.62 Nato round. I qualified in the army both with the Garand and with the M14 and I think I would prefer the Garand in combat although I fortunately never had any combat experience.

The only M-14s in Iraq are used by snipers or specialized units. There are no large scale issued M-14s going around in any units serving in Iraq.

The basic issue for a soldier is the M-16/M-4 and the units do not have M-14s for the soldiers to trade them out with nor will the Army allow them to do so.

While I agree the 7.62 is better than the 5.56, the 5.56 still kills the enemy just fine in Iraq. That is not why we are losing the war there.

renrich · 02-09-2007, 12:45 PM

Right, I understand that only specialised troops or units would be issued M14s. It would be a nightmare to have troops in regular units using 2 different service rifles in 2 different calibers. I understand that the 1911 government model is being used by some special units now also. The only reason I preferred the Garand over the M14 was that it seemed easier to carry because of the lack of the box mag., it was slightly more powerful, I felt it was easier to reload under stress and it was slightly more reliable. Oh yes it would make a better club and a better mount for a bayonet.

Soren · 02-18-2007, 09:24 PM

So you'd rather have a gun that goes *Pling !* every time you empty it and have a max of 8 rounds ? Btw, the mag on the M-14 isn't an irritating factor at all..

bananafoothead · 02-19-2007, 12:03 AM

Go with the TAR-21. Now THAT is a fine looking weapon.

bananafoothead · 02-19-2007, 12:05 AM

AND, I should add, it was designed by some guys who have been fighting a war pretty much continualy since 1948 against Iraq like opponant/s

View Poll Results: Which is it
M1 Gerand	8	50.00%
Lee Enfield	3	18.75%
Mosin Najant	0	0%
Springfield	1	6.25%
K-98	0	0%
French MAS	0	0%
Italian Carcano	0	0%
Japanese Arisaka	0	0%
German Gehwer-43	4	25.00%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

07-25-2006, 12:03 AM	#46
102first_hussars Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edmonton,Alberta Posts: 2,259	Actually "Sturm" means Storm, Storm-rifle. __________________ Hello me...meet the real me. And my misfits way of life. A dark black past is my Most valued possession. Hindsight is always 20-20, But looking back its still a bit fuzzy. Speak of mutually assured destruction? Nice story...tell it to readers digest!!!

07-26-2006, 08:07 AM	#47
schwarzpanzer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 580	If you storm a position, what do you do? - You Assault it. (& pepper it ) German doesn't always translate directly into English. The StG was originally the MKb MachinenKarabiner - Machine Carbine. The problem was, the Nazi's were infighting and the Luftwaffe thought it could score Brownie points with Hitler with it's FG42. The Army the same with it's MKb. This one-upmanship went on and on and Hitler got sick of this and ordered an end to it. He thought making a weapon less powerful than his old G98 was pointless (though ironically, so was the K98k). The soldiers were crying out for the MKb, but it wasn't allowed. A new MachinenPistole (SMG) appeared in 1943 - the MP43. It wasn't an SMG at all, but an upgraded (& banned) Mkb42! - If anyone is going to bury an Assault Weapon, I'd think it'd be hippies, not Hitler! Anyway, glowing reports came from the front lines about the new weapon. Hitler took a look at the 'new' weapon and apparently was furious. He eventually came round though. SturmGewehr was merely a catchy name. It is unknown whether it was made up to sell it to Hitler, or whether it was made up by him for Morale/Propaganda purposes. The history of the earlier Fedorov Avtomat Assault Rifle is very similar... __________________ Like WW2 tanks? Then please visit the Panzer Front: http://p208.ezboard.com/bthepanzerfront Last edited by schwarzpanzer; 07-26-2006 at 08:10 AM.

02-07-2007, 09:45 AM	#52
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,065	Why do you say that? I served in Iraq and I would not even think about using a Garand there... __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

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02-03-2007, 04:26 AM	#48
Joe2 Banned Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land of hope and Glory Posts: 295	The Lee-Enfield rifle was basicly made in the 1890s and almost made it to the 1990s, nearly 100 years, so it must have been a good gun.

02-03-2007, 04:41 AM	#49
Emac44 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brisbane Queensland Posts: 1,581	303 bolt action Lee Enfield my vote sorry to be late. especially backed by sheer Aussie Infantry with fixed bayonets fighting the Bloody Japanese and giving what bloody for

02-04-2007, 07:09 AM	#50
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	The Enfield was used until the early 90's as a Sniper-rifle, the K98K was used as a Sniper-rifle up until 1997 by the Isreali's. However both these would be at a disadvantage in close Urban settings where most wars are fought, the Garand and Gewehr 43 possessing far more firepower.

02-06-2007, 05:27 PM	#51
renrich Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado Posts: 3,523	The Garand. In fact it would be an outstanding weapon today in Iraq.

02-07-2007, 05:29 PM	#53
renrich Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado Posts: 3,523	The reason I say that is that I understand that the troops in Iraq have in some cases traded in the M16 for the old M14 because they like the greater pentration and longer range of the 7.62 Nato round. I qualified in the army both with the Garand and with the M14 and I think I would prefer the Garand in combat although I fortunately never had any combat experience.

02-07-2007, 07:10 PM	#54
timshatz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa Posts: 3,820	Are the .308 and the 30-06 that much different balistically? Not tossing a dig out, honestly don't know. Have fired them both (in different weapons at close ranges) but found no substantial difference. About the same weight round too (around 140 grains). Maybe the difference comes in at longer ranges?

02-07-2007, 10:04 PM	#55
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	The 30-06 has the same ballistics as the .308, however with a heavier projectile. With the same weight projectile you will achieve a slightly flatter trajectory with the 30-06. However if I had to choose between either the Garand or the M-14 for use in Iraq, then I'd definitely choose the M-14. You've got the same ballisctics but with more rounds. But if its long range shots a bolt action is always the best choice - with the exception of a few semi auto's such as the PSG-1 perhaps.

02-09-2007, 12:45 PM	#57
renrich Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado Posts: 3,523	Right, I understand that only specialised troops or units would be issued M14s. It would be a nightmare to have troops in regular units using 2 different service rifles in 2 different calibers. I understand that the 1911 government model is being used by some special units now also. The only reason I preferred the Garand over the M14 was that it seemed easier to carry because of the lack of the box mag., it was slightly more powerful, I felt it was easier to reload under stress and it was slightly more reliable. Oh yes it would make a better club and a better mount for a bayonet.

02-18-2007, 09:24 PM	#58
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	So you'd rather have a gun that goes Pling ! every time you empty it and have a max of 8 rounds ? Btw, the mag on the M-14 isn't an irritating factor at all..

02-19-2007, 12:05 AM	#60
bananafoothead Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 22	AND, I should add, it was designed by some guys who have been fighting a war pretty much continualy since 1948 against Iraq like opponant/s

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