Best Tank Destroyer/ self-propelled gun

WARSPITER · 11-08-2007, 08:07 AM

Thanks Civettone. That's more or less what I meant when I said the IV/L70 was a better option in practical terms. Cost and speed of manufacture plus a good performance put it in front of the JagdPanther, especially when you consider the situation Germany faced at the time. Although I still have to say the JagdPanther is my favourite as far as a good looking AFV goes. And the JagdPanther was a deadly machine as well.

Perhaps the very first post in this thread was the closest as to which TD is best. That said something about a gnats' willy between the SU-100 and the JagdPanther. The only way I can answer that is to ask this.

You have 1 unit of well maintained JagdPanthers and one unit of well maintained SU-100. You can choose to use either. You are still in the WWII era.

If you choose the JagdPanthers, you get Russian crews with the level of tactical training as per Russian methods at the time.

If you choose the SU-100s', you get German crews with their training as per the German system. On average, you would expect the German crews to be superior to the Russian. You would also expect the JagdPanthers to be superior to the SU-100 because of the specs on each vehicle.

These units are not to be pitted against each other, but are to be used to hunt tanks.

So, which unit would you choose?

Civettone · 11-08-2007, 06:09 PM

Close call but I still think the Panther would have had the advantage because of target ranging and optics. But with Russian tactics and training this doesn't lead to much. So I think the German crew would be able to get more out of their SU-100.

But one thing which should be add: there would have been two SU-100s for the price of one Panther...
Kris

WARSPITER · 11-09-2007, 05:10 AM

Two for one is something I didn't factor into this but it makes sense. If that were the case I would definitely go for the SU-100 if I had twice as many in the same unit with German crews.

I suppose that this is one of those things that will never really be resolved. It's like asking who was the best general of the war as on another post set here. Everyone has their own opinion for whatever reason and most, including me, need to be dragged kicking and screaming to change it.

I still can't really pick between the two for many reasons ( JagdPanther and SU-100 ), so maybe I would rate it as a draw with a number of other vehicles reasonably close behind.

Soren · 11-16-2007, 01:20 PM

I'd feel bloody unsafe in a SU-100 against the German Panzers, even if we outnumbered them 5 to 1, and if it was over flat terrain I'd scatter from the tank emmdiately. The SU-100 was dead meat at long range against the German medium and heavy tanks, the poor optics of the SU-100 only being sufficient up to 800m. If a long range engagement was initiated between the two tanks the JagdPanther would singlehandedly take out many of the SU-100's before having to withdraw to avoid being outflanked, and this is what happened frequently on the Eastern front.

WARSPITER · 11-19-2007, 04:23 AM

May be so, but my question didn't involve what tanks the SU would be up against, more how good it would be with German crews. I also meant that since we are talking tank destroyers, either unit would be hunting tanks, not each other. The other point of my question was that crews, training, and experience must have counted for a lot.

One thing I have found in many references, book and internet, is the use of experienced crews in lesser vehicles and inexperienced crews in the better ttanks of the Wermacht. I'm not sure whether this occurred across the board and if it did it doesn't really make much sense. Were there any specific orders to this effect or is it something someone made up?

Civettone · 11-25-2007, 01:33 AM

I've never heard about this.

In fact I've heard the opposite, namely that the Tigers had the best crews.

Can you direct me towards an online source??
Kris

Hakenkreuz · 11-25-2007, 07:18 AM

I think that the T-34 was the best tank killer ever made. There`s also a photo of a Jagdpanther front armor with two holes in it on the Imperial war museum london Web site

Soren · 11-25-2007, 01:05 PM

The T-34 was more likely the best tank-fodder ever made

MacArther · 11-25-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

The T-34 was more likely the best tank-fodder ever made

Now, now, lets not forget the good old "Ronson" Shermans....

comiso90 · 11-25-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soren

The T-34 was more likely the best tank-fodder ever made

I'll take 100 T-34's over 10 Panthers any day!!!!!

I love this photo! If the Jagdpanther had breasts and could make lasagna, I'd marry it... beautiful!!!

.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-25-2007, 04:42 PM

I have to agree with Comiso here. I think it is hard to argue that the Panther and the Tiger were not the best tanks of the war however I would rather have 100+ Shermans or T-34s over only a handful of Tigers and Panthers.

plan_D · 11-25-2007, 05:28 PM

Depends on the situation; Italian mountains on the defence - I'll have 10 Tigers [and lots of ammo] ... Asian steppes on the offence - 100 T-34-85, thanks.

Soren · 11-25-2007, 05:29 PM

I as well Plan_D.

On the Russian countryside I'd rather have 10 Tigers or Panthers as-well.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-25-2007, 05:36 PM

Actually pD said on the Russian steppes he would rather have 100 T-34s over a handfull of Panthers or Tigers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

Italian mountains on the defence - I'll have 10 Tigers [and lots of ammo] ... Asian steppes on the offence - 100 T-34-85, thanks.

Soren · 11-25-2007, 05:44 PM

I didn't know Russia was part of Asia...

On the Russian countryside I'd always prefer 10 Tigers or Panthers over 100 T-34's! And seeing that this wasn't an anomally for German Tigers on the Eastern front to be facing and yet come out triumphant, I'd say I have a pretty good argument here.