Best World war two warships?

[Lucky13]

THAT is one hell of a destroyer, eh?

[T4.H]

Three quintuple torpedo mounts...Long Lances...

Look at this...


Japanese Torpedoes
The best torpedo of all time (each period)
20,000m @ 48 kts
32,000m @ 40 kts
40,000m @ 36 kts
1080 lbs. explosive charge


Mark 15 torpedo (destroyer torpedo of the US Navy)
5,500m @ 45 kts
9,150m @ 33 kts
13,700m @ 26 kts
825 lbs. explosive charge

All japanese destroyers have had some disadvantages.
slow turning rate of there main armament turrets (useless against aircrafts)
bad sonar systems.
realy bad AA guns.

[Glider]

Impressive but not the best. A destroyer has to be able to fight all enemys and whilst I certainly wouldn't want to fight her in a night surface combat she lacks AA guns and A/S abilities.

[delcyros]

The Shimakaze class is perfectly suited for the ASW and AA warfare. She fields 5"/50 DP guns in fully enclosed twin mounts. The mounts of Shimakaze and the Yugumo class DD´s (the only modified 5"/50´s) were given an elevation of 75 degrees and a more powerful training motor, which turns this gun into a true DP-gun. It outranged US 5" guns by almost 4000 yards and had decent ballistic perfromance with a very good AAA ceiling. The Shimakaze also had 18 DC´s with two depth charge throwers. Not overly much but adaequate for the ASW task.
Her type 21 radar, while inferior to contemporary US sets, still gives a credible scouting ability, the way Shimakaze usually was used in ww2.

[Glider]

True but she didn't have the proximity fuze which made a vast difference, she didn't have the 40mm also a significant advance over the 25mm. Range means next to nothing on a destroyer as the ship itself makes such a poor gun platform and 18 DC's would not up up for the task as well as her ADSIC being a poor performer.
I am afraid I don't think she is up to the AA or ASW role.

Whilst her radar gives scouting ability it is very poor compared to the allied radars who could keep her at arms length and she wouldn't know about it.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Glider

Whilst her radar gives scouting ability it is very poor compared to the allied radars who could keep her at arms length and she wouldn't know about it.

As early as 1942, the IJN was using passive detection of US radar beams to determine approximate locations of naval forces.

[delcyros]

True, gun platform rating of DD´s typically was low but Shimakaze bested it´s contenders in this aspect (mostly thanks to her advantage in size).
It´s also true that the proxy fuze improves AAA capabilities and the japanese didn´t had one.
That doesn´t make her a poor performer, either. Shimakaze was packed up with 25mm and the IJN considered that gun adaequate (I personally would prefer the 40mm anytime, too). The 5"/50 is not as good an AAA as the 3.9"/65 of the A. class DD´s (which most scholars regard as the best ww2 DP gun) but it is not bad in the AAA role and definetely superior in the surface role.
Shimakaze had longer legs than other DD´s and could outrun most as well.
An interesting what if remains in case Shimakaze would not have been packed up with survivors at Samar, keeping her away from action. Her torpedo battery never would find such a formidable target rich environment again.

[Glider]

Delc
I agree with a lot of what you said its just my belief that overall she wasn't as good as the Sunner Class. Its worth noting that to significantly increase the number of 25mm carried she had to lose wher X turret leaving her with 4 x 5in and 28 x 25mm

Syscom
I was't aware of the Japanese use of passive location, much appreciated.

[Ghostdancer]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

The only reason I did not rate the Yamato is because we never got to see how it really would be, if I recall the Yamato and the Musashi never fired there main guns in anger.

I don't know if either of these ships were even included in any of the Japanese Navy's planned operations. Their only action was when they were sunk by carrier planes. Well, I know that this was the fate of the Yamato, was the Musashi also sunk by carrier planes?

[renrich]

Yamato and Musashi were both sunk by carrier AC. It was Musashi, I think, who fired her main battery at Leyte Gulf at the surface ships of Sprague. I don't believe she made any hits. Both Musashi and Yamato fired their main batteries whilst being attacked by ac.

[delcyros]

Yamato actually fired her main battery in combat during oct. 1944 against Taffy 3 off Samar.
Altough actual evidence is problematic at best, the survivors of USS Gambier Bay (CVE) believe that they received critical damage from 18" rounds and Yamato claimed hits on an escort carrier and a destroyer. Probably these rounds -if APC- did only caused large holes but went through the entire hull. Evidence is overwhelming that critical damage was done by 8" rounds fired from the cruisers. It should be noted that in this action, Yamato and a superior cruiser force were chased off by very skillfully deployed US DD attacks, preventing that Yamato could be utitlized to it´s full potential. In theory, the IJN enjoiing numerical and force advantage should be able to wipe out Taffy 1-3 entirely as no CVE had a speed to disengage...

[eddie_brunette]

Ok, I'm not very big on the ships, but what about the little PT Boats? Saw "Battle Stations" on THC and those guys really were insane or have steel, copper or golden balls

[ColesAircraft]

The most powerful mechanical weapon ever built by man?

index

-Ron Cole

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by ColesAircraft

The most powerful mechanical weapon ever built by man?

]

-Ron Cole

Most certainly not!

She was sunk by Aircraft Carrier Aircraft.

Aircraft Carriers are the most powerful weapons (minus Nukes).

[ColesAircraft]

Actually, an aircraft carrier is a big barge with a flat top, and aircraft are individual machines with limited individual power. Yamato was a single operating machine, excluding launches and recon aircraft.

- Ron