Best WW2 Weapon...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Watanbe

AT weapon: ?

Panzerfaust...

[Joe2]

It could only be used once though. Ill go with the Panzershreck.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I was just making an example.

[timshatz]

Both were deadly. First really effective , mass produced, shaped charge weapons.

[Watanbe]

What about the Piat and Bazooka?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The PIAT (Projector, Infantry, Anti Tank) was an eary attempt by the British and thought it was smaller and could be used in confined spaces it was primitive, heavy, cumbersome, strenuous to ****, and had a very short range compared to the Bazooka and Panzerschreck. So therefor....

No

The Bazooka was a great weapon but the Panzerschreck was developed based off of the Bazooka and better in my opinion. The reasons for this are the Bazooka was only accurate and short ranges and the US even saw that it was inferior to the Panzerschreck and later reworked there Bazooka to a better standard such as the Panzerschreck.

Armour Penetration:

PIAT: 102mm
M1A1 Bazooka - 100mm
Panzerschreck - 200mm
Panzerfaust - 200m

It is quite clear the Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck were the best anti tank weapons of WW2.

[timshatz]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

The PIAT (Projector, Infantry, Anti Tank) was an eary attempt by the British and thought it was smaller and could be used in confined spaces it was primitive, heavy, cumbersome, strenuous to ****, and had a very short range compared to the Bazooka and Panzerschreck. So therefor....

No

The Bazooka was a great weapon but the Panzerschreck was developed based off of the Bazooka and better in my opinion. The reasons for this are the Bazooka was only accurate and short ranges and the US even saw that it was inferior to the Panzerschreck and later reworked there Bazooka to a better standard such as the Panzerschreck.

Armour Penetration:

PIAT: 102mm
M1A1 Bazooka - 100mm
Panzerschreck - 200mm
Panzerfaust - 200m

It is quite clear the Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck were the best anti tank weapons of WW2.

That pretty much covers it. Good post.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

There was a version of the Bazooka called the M20 Super Bazooka that could penetrate 200mm and reworded based off of the Panzerschreck but it was only post war I believe.

[trackend]

Good info and post Adler.
The PIAT was a nightmare thing and having spoken to a guy who used one in anger he reckoned it nearly ruptured you to c.ock the thing let alone having the perilous job of getting close enough to do any real damage. It was ok for light AFV's but at best was a track remover on anything substantial.

[Watanbe]

Originally Posted by trackend

Good info and post Adler.
The PIAT was a nightmare thing and having spoken to a guy who used one in anger he reckoned it nearly ruptured you to c.ock the thing let alone having the perilous job of getting close enough to do any real damage. It was ok for light AFV's but at best was a track remover on anything substantial.

Thanks for that info always wondered on the PIAT.

How useful effective was the Bazooka in penetrating the German Medium/Heavy Tanks. Or was it just targeted at the rear of the vehicle and fired at the tracks to immobolize.

[Lucky13]

"The unexpected advent of the M1 Bazooka in Tunisa made a considerable impact on the German military establishment.Not only did the Bazooka concept present a considerable danger to German armor but the simplicity , low cost and potential of the launchers design made a great impression.The immediate result was the abandonment of the R-Werfer 43 in favour of the novel Bazooka rocket delivery system.Within weeks the first examples of the 88mm (3.4in) Raketenpanzerbüchse43 (88mm RPzB 43) were coming off the HASAG production line at Meuselwitz.Most R-Werfer 43's already produced were sent to Tunisia or Italy and were soon forgotten or lost in action.A few were diverted to be emplaced among the defensive works covering the Normandy beaches as part of the Atlantic Wall defences.
The RPzB 43 Panzerschreck (Tank Terror) was an enlarged version of the M1 Bazooka being scarcely more then a length of steel tube with a shoulder rest and firing arrangements attached , hence the alternative German nickname of Ofenrohr (Stovepipe).The calibre was selected simply because 88mm hollow charge warheads were already in production for launching from the R-Werfer 43 but with rockets for the RPzB 43 there was a difference .Having noted that the American M6 HEAT rocket was ignition method was altered accordingly , resulting in the RPzBGr 4322 weighing 3.25kg (7.2lb).However the Germans decided not to adopt the battery-powered ignition circuitry rapidly developing and adopting a magneto-driven ignition method.It is interesting to note that the Americans later adopted a magneto ignition system for their M9/M9A1 launchers.
The weight of a loaded 88mm RPzB 43 was 9.5kg (20.9lb).Armour penetration performance remained as before ie 160mm (6.24in) of armour plate set at an angle of 60°.The length of the RPzB 43 (1.64m) meant that to handle it effectively called for a team of two , one acting as the loader and carrying five ready-use rockets on a special backpack frame.Only when a target approached was a rocket loaded into the rear of the launching tube where it was held by a retaining catch and connected by the loader to the firing circuit via two thin wires.The firer used simple fixed sights for aiming and cocked the firing arrangements by pulling back a spring-loaded lever. Operating the trigger produced a current for a primer to ignite the rocket motor and launch the rocket.
RPzB 43 teams had to be masters of concealment and stealth for the practical range of the RPzBGr 4322 rocket was a maximum of 150m (492ft).Combat ranges were frequently considerable less.A trained team could launch four or five rockets in one minute.Panzerschreck warheads were also highly effective against field fortifications or buildings during fighting in built up areas.
The RPzB 43 was very rapidly accepted into service and soon became the preferred portable anti-tank weapon for infantry formations.By 1944 the weapon was so well integrated that each infantry regiment had an establishment of 36 held by the regimental anti-tank company , along with three 75mm (2.9in) Pak 40 towed anti-tank guns.The so-called Volksgrenadier infantry regiments of the latter war years were meant to have a planned 72 Panzerschrecken.
By mid-1944 the RPzB 43 was well into the process of being withdrawn from front line units in favour of the improved 88mm (3.4in) RPzB 54 , the RPzB 43s were transferred to second line and home defence militias.The main change on the RPzB 54 was the introduction of a shield for the firer plus the weight increased to 11kg (24.2lb).By 1944 the Panzerschreck series had already become so important that production was in progress in seven centers and many others were concerned with sub assemblies.The simplicity of the RPzB 54 and its lack of demand for critical raw materials or manufacturing resources was such that the unit cost was only RM70.Production totals during 1943 and 1944 reached 289,151.
By the end of 1944 production was already switching to the 88mm (3.4in) RPzB 54/1 capable of launching an improved rocket , the RPzBGr 4992.While the armour penetrating warhead remained as before the RPzBGr 4992 was modified by having a far more efficient motor which completely consumed its propellant by the time it left the muzzle.The exhaust hazard to the firer therefore no longer existed , except under extremely low temperature conditions although the safety area to the rear still had to be observed.
The improved RPzBGr 4992 motor also increased the maximum range to 180m (600ft) while at the same time allowing the overall length of the launch tube to be reduced from the former 1.64m (5ft 5in) to a handier 1.3m (5ft 0.25in) , the weight reverted to 9.5kg (20.9lb).RPzB 54/1 production had reached 25,744 by the time the war ended.By then 2,218,400 88mm RPzBGr 4322 and 4992 rockets had also been manufactured.

Various firing positions were also used for the RPzB 54.The safest manner was the laying position.The gunner and loader had to lie at a right angle to the weapon. The kneeling and standing positions were used only from cover.

An If.8 infantry cart used to transport six Panzerschreck and along with a second wagon the thirty rounds of ammunition for a tank-destroyer group.

[Lucky13]

The Panzerfaust family of weapons was considerably easy to use. Simple usage instructions were often printed onto the warhead.Use of the Panzerfaust 60 was as follows: After detachment of the warhead the detonation charge and firing percussion cap were inserted the Panzerfaust was percussion-ignited like a rifle round. Then the warhead was again mounted to its shaft. After the sighting lever was locked in the "up" - position the gunner could remove the safety plug at the warhead and the weapon was ready to fire; the raised lever then served as the rear sight. The Panzerfaust 100 worked the same way except that the weapon came delivered ready to fire, charge and firing cap were already readied. The Panzerfaust 30 and the Faustpatrone had a slightly different arming system: instead of the lever it had a small cocking device in form of an arming rod on top of the barrel. After the charge and the cap had been inserted, the arming rod was pushed forward until the firing pin cocks and the firing button protrudes. The weapon is now cocked but still secured. To finish the arming the gunner has to turn a safety switch to the left. The rear of the firing tube of again all Panzerfaust weapons was factory-sealed with a cardboard cap against dirt. This cup did not have to be removed for firing. After the warhead left the tube it armed after a flight of about 5m.
Despite the seemingly easy usage and the fact that simple usage instructions were printed onto each weapon, many accidents happened because of wrong handling of often ill-trained personnel, sometimes also because of material defects of the weapons themselves. Although officially a single-use throw-away weapon, the used tubes of the all the Panzerfaust weapons were usually collected and returned for rearmament at the factory.

Caution was to be paid to the back-blast of the weapon, it created an explosion blast of two to three meters ( 6.5 - 10 ft.) behind the tube. Therefore on many Panzerfausts, especially the early Panzerfaust 30 m, a warning in large red letters printed on the upper rear part of the tube advised to stay clear: Achtung! Feuerstrahl! ("Beware ! Fire Jet !"; see pic. above of four Panzerfaust 30 in delivery crate).
Sometimes other variations of this warning were stenciled on the upper rear. But the back-blast wasn't only dangerous to bystanders: the rear of the firing soldier had to be free of obstacles for at least 3 m (10 ft.), otherwise heavy burns on the back of the firing soldier would result. Officially the rear of the gunner had to be free for 10m for safety reasons and the back-blast was reported as lethal to a range of 3m behind the tube. Mostly the fiery back-blast, but also the atmospheric pressure and the relative hazardousness of the blast's smoke put heavy restrictions on indoor use; this holds true even more for the Panzerschreck.
Despite the seemingly easy usage and the fact that simple usage instructions were printed onto each weapon, many accidents happened because of wrong handling of often ill-trained personnel, sometimes also because of material defects of the weapons themselves.
Although officially a single-use throw-away weapon, the used tubes of the all the Panzerfaust weapons were usually collected and returned for rearmament at the factory.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Watanbe

Thanks for that info always wondered on the PIAT.

How useful effective was the Bazooka in penetrating the German Medium/Heavy Tanks. Or was it just targeted at the rear of the vehicle and fired at the tracks to immobolize.

It could penetrate aprox. 100mm of armour. It could still take out the tracks thought at great distances. As stated though even though it had good range it was only accurate at close ranges.

[Joe2]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Some people state that the Finnish M28 and KP31 is the best ever sniper rifle....



Simo Häyhä, the highest scoring sniper in history with accounted
542 kills. Will probably be unmatched as long as we live atleast.

Simo Hayha W.W. II Finland 542
Ivan Sidorenko W.W. II U.S.S.R. 500
Nikolay Yakovlevich Ilyin W.W. II U.S.S.R. 496
Kulbertinov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 487
V. N. Pchelintsev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 456
Mikhail Budenkov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 437
Fyodor Matveevich Okhlopkov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 429
Fyodor Djachenko W.W. II U.S.S.R. 425
Vasilij Ivanovich Golosov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 422
Afanasy Gordienko W.W. II U.S.S.R. 417
Stepan Petrenko W.W. II U.S.S.R. 412
Sulo Kolkka W.W. II Finland 400+
Erwin Konig W.W. II Germany 400
Vasili Zaitsev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 400
Semen D. Nomokonov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 367
Abdukhani Idrisov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 349
Philipp Yakovlevich Rubaho W.W. II U.S.S.R. 346
Matthäus Hetzenauer W.W. II Germany 345
Victor Ivanovich Medvedev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 331
E. Nicolaev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 324
Leonid Yakovlevich Butkevich W.W. II U.S.S.R. 315
Nikolai Ilyin W.W. II U.S.S.R. 315
Lyudmila M. Pavlichenko (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 309
Alexander Pavlovich Lebedev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 307
Ivan Pavlovich Gorelikov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 305
Ivan Petrovich Antonov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 302
Heinz Thorvald W.W. II Germany 300
Gennadij Iosifovich Velichko W.W. II U.S.S.R. 300
Moisej Timofeyevich Usik W.W. II U.S.S.R. 300
Nataly V. Kovshova &
Maria Polivanova (Female team) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 300
Ivan Filippovich Abdulov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 298
Yakov Mikhajlovich Smetnev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 279
Liba Rugova W.W. II U.S.S.R. 274
Anatolij Chekhov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 265
Zhambyl Evscheyevich Tulaev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 262
Sepp Allerberger W.W. II Germany 257
Fyodor Kuzmich Chegodaev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 250
Ivan Ivanovich Bocharov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 248
Mikhail Ignatievich Belousov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 245
Maxim Passar W.W. II U.S.S.R. 237
David Teboevich Doev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 226
Vasilij Shalvovich Kvachantiradze W.W. II U.S.S.R. 215
Bruno Sutkus W.W. II Germany 209
Mikhail Stepanovich Sokhin W.W. II U.S.S.R. 202
Noj Petrovich Adamia W.W. II U.S.S.R. 200
M.A. Abbasov W.W.II U.S.S.R. 200
Gefreiter Meyer W.W. II Germany 180
Yekaterina Zuranova (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 155
Vladimir Ptchelinzev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 152
Inna Semyonovna Mudretsova (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 143
Feodosy Smeljachkov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 125
I. Merkulov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 125
H. Andruhaev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 125
Oleh Dir W.W. II Germany 120
Tatiana Igantovna Kostyrina(F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 120
Janis Roze W.W. II U.S.S.R. 116
N.P. Petrova (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 107
V. N. Pchelintsev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 102
Yelizaveta Mironova (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R 100+
Aliya Moldagulova (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 91
Nina Lobkovskaya (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 89
Lidiya Gudovantseva (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 76
Helmut Wirnsberger W.W. II Germany 64
Alexandra Shlyakhova (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 63
P. Grjaznov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 57
Roza Shanina (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 54
A.P.Medvedeva-Nazarkina (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 43
Marie Ljalková (F) W.W. II Czech Army 30
James Bedford MacArthur W.W. II Canada 9

Hmm I read somewhere the where some British and American top snipers...

[Soren]

I never heard about an Erwin König before...