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05-31-2007, 10:09 AM
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#76 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter368  Wolverines!!!! |  
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | 
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05-31-2007, 10:36 AM
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#77 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 7,386
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ This is a very a very hypothetical thread....  | Like Hitler being Churchills long lost brother....seperated at birth.  
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JAN
"I´m going back to the front to relax"
"THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT"
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!"
"When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!" | |
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05-31-2007, 12:31 PM
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#78 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 2,283
Country: | Flyboy, your point about the people in this country with guns is a good one. I can't think of any country in the world where the citizenry is as well armed as in the US. A would be conquerer would have his work cut out for him trying to subdue this country, especially in the 1940s. | |
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05-31-2007, 05:46 PM
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#79 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Posts: 2,260
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by renrich Flyboy, your point about the people in this country with guns is a good one. I can't think of any country in the world where the citizenry is as well armed as in the US. A would be conquerer would have his work cut out for him trying to subdue this country, especially in the 1940s. | Thats a problem in the middleast an East Asia too, everybody owns an AK or an SKS and thats one of the many problems were facing right now
__________________
Hello me...meet the real me.
And my misfits way of life.
A dark black past is my
Most valued possession.
Hindsight is always 20-20,
But looking back its still a bit fuzzy.
Speak of mutually assured destruction?
Nice story...tell it to readers digest!!! | |
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05-31-2007, 05:47 PM
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#80 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by 102first_hussars Thats a problem in the middleast an East Asia too, everybody owns an AK or an SKS and thats one of the many problems were facing right now | Yep!!!!!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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05-31-2007, 06:25 PM
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#81 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 2,283
Country: | I fail to see any connection between the US and the middle east and east asia. | |
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05-31-2007, 09:03 PM
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#82 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa
Posts: 2,629
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by renrich I fail to see any connection between the US and the middle east and east asia. | There isn't one ever since Pangea broke up 180 million years ago.
Ok, bad joke but I couldn't help it. | |
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05-31-2007, 09:05 PM
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#83 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Quote:
Originally Posted by timshatz There isn't one ever since Pangea broke up 180 million years ago.
Ok, bad joke but I couldn't help it. | I didnt know you knew your paleogeology. 
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"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
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05-31-2007, 11:04 PM
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#84 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,205
Country: | Syscom where is that list of US navy from 1939 and 1945?
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In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
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06-01-2007, 01:47 AM
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#85 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Naval Ships
Carriers
1. United States = 22 (141)
2. Japan = 16
3. United Kingdom = 14
Battleships
1. United States = 8
2. United Kingdom = 5
3. Italy = 3
4. Japan = 2
5. Germany = 2
Cruisers
1. United States = 48
2. United Kingdom = 32
3. Japan = 9
4. Italy = 6
5. Soviet Union = 2
Destroyers
1. United States = 349
2. United Kingdom = 240
3. Japan = 63
4. Soviet Union = 25
Escorts
1. United States = 498
2. United Kingdom = 413
3. Canada = 191
Subs
1. Germany = 1,337
2. US = 422
3. Japan = 167
4. United Kingdom = 167
5. Soviet Union = 52
6. Italy = 28
Merchant Tonnage
1. United States = 33,993,230
2. United Kingdom = 6,378,899
3. Japan = 4,152,361
4. Commonwealth = 2,702,943
5. Italy = 469,606
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"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
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06-01-2007, 04:15 AM
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#86 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 7,386
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by renrich Flyboy, your point about the people in this country with guns is a good one. I can't think of any country in the world where the citizenry is as well armed as in the US. A would be conquerer would have his work cut out for him trying to subdue this country, especially in the 1940s. | You should see Sweden when the hunting season is for moose/elk? Even the (censored) trees is running around with rifles..... 
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JAN
"I´m going back to the front to relax"
"THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT"
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!"
"When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!" | |
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06-01-2007, 04:18 AM
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#87 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 7,386
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3 Naval Ships
Carriers
1. United States = 22 (141)
2. Japan = 16
3. United Kingdom = 14
Battleships
1. United States = 8
2. United Kingdom = 5
3. Italy = 3
4. Japan = 2
5. Germany = 2
Cruisers
1. United States = 48
2. United Kingdom = 32
3. Japan = 9
4. Italy = 6
5. Soviet Union = 2
Destroyers
1. United States = 349
2. United Kingdom = 240
3. Japan = 63
4. Soviet Union = 25
Escorts
1. United States = 498
2. United Kingdom = 413
3. Canada = 191
Subs
1. Germany = 1,337
2. US = 422
3. Japan = 167
4. United Kingdom = 167
5. Soviet Union = 52
6. Italy = 28
Merchant Tonnage
1. United States = 33,993,230
2. United Kingdom = 6,378,899
3. Japan = 4,152,361
4. Commonwealth = 2,702,943
5. Italy = 469,606 | The Russians didn't have much of a navy it looks like....was that all they had?
__________________
JAN
"I´m going back to the front to relax"
"THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT"
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!"
"When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!" | |
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06-01-2007, 09:13 AM
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#88 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa
Posts: 2,629
Country: | Just looking at the numbers, the numbers look like they are for the total time of 1939-1945. The number of US subs looks a tad high. Would've guessed it was more in the 2-300 range.
But even 200 is more than enough to devestate a merchant fleet of 13 million metric tons (adding the larger, non-US fleets together). Figure you have 100 subs that are operational at any given time and the average hull is 4000 tons. If each sub sinks 2 ships (on average) per patrol and each patrol is (on average) 30 days (given the US is protecting it's shores and the subs operational areas would be close to shore) you are looking at roughly 800,000 tons per month lost (or 9.6 million tons per year).
Granted, there are a lot of problems with the above idea, but it gives some idea of what a I see as the greatest problem with an attack against the US in the 40s. The supply lines are very long, open to attack and the US knows it. As all supplies to the forces attaking the US would have to come from overseas, it is a main weakness with an attack on the US.
To add to the above analysis, while 60-65% of Japanese shipping was sunk by US Subs, a good 25-30% were sunk by Aircraft. Approaching the US Coastline would allow aircraft as diverse as the B17 to the Catalina to the SBD to the P47 to attack. The closer any ship gets to the US the greater it's chances of attack get. | |
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06-01-2007, 09:33 AM
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#89 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,205
Country: | What year are those numbers for or from Syscom?
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In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
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06-01-2007, 10:11 AM
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#90 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 7,386
Country: | Did the USN have better luck with the torpedoes for the subs than those used by their torpedobombers? The type 13 wasn't very good was it? Another thing maybe worth looking into is the technological advantage...
Just stirring things up lads.... 
__________________
JAN
"I´m going back to the front to relax"
"THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT"
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!"
"When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!" | |
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