Dieppe Raid, worst lost of Allied Battles?

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Well, only comfort is that the Canadians didn't have to take Omaha Beach on D-Day.

[freebird]

Originally Posted by Medvedya

It was largely Mountbattens fault - he was the Chief of Combined Operations and although told by Montgomery it was a no go, he ploughed along with it anyway, using his influence with Churchill to make it happen.

So - nobody, and most importantly British intelligence knew it was going to happen until it was too late to stop. The rest, is history.

He was a reckless ass, which would have been fine were it his own head he was putting in harms way but it wasn't - it was nearly 3000 Canucks who paid the price for his folly.

The final insult to this was that when it was over, instead of visiting the pitfully few wounded who made it back he goes instead to meet his pal Noel Coward who was filming 'In Which We Serve' a film loosely based about Mountbatten and the time he lost HMS Kelly at Crete - again through his recklessness.

You're right, he was an ass, it was only because he was cousin of the King that he got away with it.

The commander of the air forces (Leigh-Mallory) also comes across very poorly in the whole affair.

Originally Posted by Maharg

Dieppe was a demonstration to show the yanks that proper preperation and planing was needed before Europe could be freeded from the oppresion they were suffering.
The way I read it, as soon as the US forces arrived in England they wanted to invade the Continent.
No, no, no, said the Poms, we need to prepare more, and the German Army is really good at what they do. For example watch this.....hence Dieppe.

They used up the 'Colonials' in this case the Canadians.

All the best.
Graham.

very astute analysis Graham.

[drgondog]

From a US perspective, Corregidor then Kasserine Pass are up there. I agree Singapore for Commonwealth.

Close behind (for me) was Operation Market Garden and Anzio and Huertgen Forest for waste/unfulfilled expectations, total waste of manpower and focus. Had any of these succeeded as planned they would be hailed as great victories.

Then there is Bloody Pelalau - why??

No, Dieppe is nowhere on my horizon for 'worst debacle' for Allies and we have not touched Russia or Africa before the tide was turned.

[orion549]

Originally Posted by Soundbreaker Welch?

Well, only comfort is that the Canadians didn't have to take Omaha Beach on D-Day.

As disrespectful as it might be, I had a good laugh at that one. But yes, it's not the worst of the war, it's just the worst the Canadians were mostly involved in, that's why we hear more about Dieppe up here than we even hear about Juno.

Just like Vimy Ridge wasn't one of the greatest victories of WWI, but that's another battle we hear about a lot about up here. Quite frankly I'm surprised we don't learn more about the battle of Amiens here for it's historical relevance. Although maybe they've changed that, it's been almost 10 years since I've taken a high school Canadian History course. Although they never seem to add things, just take things away.

[freebird]

Originally Posted by drgondog

From a US perspective, Corregidor then Kasserine Pass are up there. I agree Singapore for Commonwealth.

Close behind (for me) was Operation Market Garden and Anzio and Huertgen Forest for waste/unfulfilled expectations, total waste of manpower and focus. Had any of these succeeded as planned they would be hailed as great victories.

Then there is Bloody Pelalau - why??

No, Dieppe is nowhere on my horizon for 'worst debacle' for Allies and we have not touched Russia or Africa before the tide was turned.

Singapore, mainly a lack of preparation, {and the far east was starved for reinforcements in '40 & '41}

But as you say Market Garden would have been a great victory if it worked, but what would Dieppe have acomplished if it had succeeded brilliantly? Merely to point out to the Germans the parts of the Atlantic Wall that needed improving.

[Kiwikid]

The Westkappelle landings which my father was part of (operation Cindarella) in 1944 were said to be the bloodiest battle for the Allies in Europe. Ironically it was mostly Canadians again who were landed at Walcheren island.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by Kiwikid

The Westkappelle landings which my father was part of (operation Cindarella) in 1944 were said to be the bloodiest battle for the Allies in Europe. Ironically it was mostly Canadians again who were landed at Walcheren island.

Probably the worst terrain in the ETO to attack dug in troops , fighting on those dykes

[Ramirezzz]

Dieppe as the worst battle in the west? It was a relatively small scale and limited recce operation although with a catastrophic outcome
I would say Sedan fall of France in general

[k9kiwi]

It was a testing ground.

For equipment, strategy and manpower necessary to arrive, establish a beach head, and prove the ability to hold it.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The idea of landing slow moving infantry type tanks (Churchills) onto a steep shingle beach with a rampart sea wall is ludicrous in the extreme as a viable concept.

The same (referring to earlier posts) as Omaha beach not making use of the "funny" tanks because they were a British invention. The only ones they used were launched too far out and the majority swamped before the shore line.

Dieppe had shown the need for armour on the beach head in an ETO operation was imperative, and without it the toll would be high.

It also showed the need for improved Infantry Landing Craft to allow more troops to de-bus faster and swamp the incoming fire.

As well as improved co-ordinated communications between shore-sea and shore-air.

So many lessons, such little time.

[orion549]

Actually, the reason the tanks at Omaha all sank was because the current was stonger in that location, and as the tank drivers turned to compensate they turned the wider canvas wall to the waves and they collapsed. It kind of was related to the fact they launched early (which I think they were told not to launch, but didn't get the transmission) because if they hadn't, they wouldn't have been swept so far to the east that they had the tanks in the wrong position.

[CharlesBronson]

British newsreel of the battle:

British Pathe - COMBINED OPERATIONS

[RabidAlien]

In the book "A Man Called Intrepid", the Dieppe Raid was set to cover another raid a little further down the beach: a German radar installation. The Allies needed to know how good the German radar was at the time, to help determine bombing raids and such. With Dieppe going on, any damage to the installation (to disguise stolen parts) could be attributed to raid damage. If Dieppe hadn't happened at the same time, the Germans would know the Allies were interested in their radars. Not saying that this in any way makes Dieppe less of a bloodbath, but knowing that the radar issue probably saved countless Allied flyers/crews gives it more of a morbidly noble flavor.

[michaelmaltby]

There's plenty of blame to go around on Dieppe - including the Canadian Government.

MM
Toronto

[Bernhart]

Canadians also suffered heavy losses on juno beach up to 50% of the first wave were casualties

[freebird]

Originally Posted by k9kiwi

It was a testing ground.

For equipment, strategy and manpower necessary to arrive, establish a beach head, and prove the ability to hold it.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Dieppe had shown the need for armour on the beach head in an ETO operation was imperative, and without it the toll would be high.

It also showed the need for improved Infantry Landing Craft to allow more troops to de-bus faster and swamp the incoming fire.

As well as improved co-ordinated communications between shore-sea and shore-air.

So many lessons, such little time.

This kind of testing was not needed, the could use similar British beaches to test it.