Dieppe Raid, worst lost of Allied Battles? - Aircraft of World War II

ArrowZero · 09-04-2007, 03:56 PM

I want to know if this battle that was a disaster and killed many Canadian, British and some American soldiers, if it was the worst battle that the Allied lost. I heard about it, is it true that the people who organized this Raid already knew about the German defences and they knew that was going to happen, but they wanted to test German Defence?

Most of the soldiers send to Dieppe were Canadian...

mosquitoman · 09-04-2007, 04:16 PM

I twas a "reconaissance-in-force" to find out what invading a port would be like.
The biggest lost battle by the Allies IMO would be Crete simply because it would have been ideal as an air base to aid Malta hassling the Mediterranean convoys.

ToughOmbre · 09-04-2007, 04:34 PM

Worst? Hardly.

Singapore, Bataan, Corregidor quickly come to mind.

TO

mosquitoman · 09-04-2007, 04:43 PM

Okay, i got it wrong, worst defeat in the West.

ArrowZero · 09-04-2007, 04:44 PM

[QUOTE=mosquitoman;273236]I twas a "reconaissance-in-force" to find out what invading a port would be like.
QUOTE]

By "reconaissance-in-force" you mean they send soldiers to be killed just to test the defences for another invading mission

timshatz · 09-04-2007, 04:44 PM

Think Singapore was the worst of the three. Bataan and Corregidor fell after long sieges. Defense of Singapore just fell apart.

pbfoot · 09-04-2007, 08:43 PM

Ithink you should argue the Dieppe raid on this thread
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/pol...wwii-8012.html (Greatest military blunder of WWII)

klidedarked · 09-05-2007, 10:50 PM

well, actually i think dieppe raid should be consider as one of the biggest lost battle cause what i have heard, dieppe raid was a huge disaster on the canadian division, well, i think the allies didn´t expected what happened...

ArrowZero · 09-05-2007, 11:03 PM

Well, actually the generals knew about the German defences at the beach, they just want to test it...but with soldiers that lost their lives. It was unfair that they send soldiers, that they didn't knew about the defences,to be killed just to see German defence. This operation was a disaster, not the worst, but it help that later they could be more organized in their invasions.

Medvedya · 09-05-2007, 11:21 PM

It was largely Mountbattens fault - he was the Chief of Combined Operations and although told by Montgomery it was a no go, he ploughed along with it anyway, using his influence with Churchill to make it happen.

So - nobody, and most importantly British intelligence knew it was going to happen until it was too late to stop. The rest, is history.

He was a reckless ass, which would have been fine were it his own head he was putting in harms way but it wasn't - it was nearly 3000 Canucks who paid the price for his folly.

The final insult to this was that when it was over, instead of visiting the pitfully few wounded who made it back he goes instead to meet his pal Noel Coward who was filming 'In Which We Serve' a film loosely based about Mountbatten and the time he lost HMS Kelly at Crete - again through his recklessness.

ArrowZero · 09-06-2007, 04:12 PM

So Montgomery knew it will be a disaster and Mountbattens didn't listen to him?

... He should have been more organized , because there were a lot of German defence there, and not a lot of cover for soldiers. The soldiers were killed almost as soon a they ran on the beach by the Germans machine guns and morters.
This helped for the organization of D-day in 1944?

Concorde247 · 09-06-2007, 08:49 PM

Montgomery certainly wasnt perfect either, his ego kept getting in the way, you only have to look at what happened at Arnhem to see that. He chose to ignore the good intel from the dutch resistance of there being two SS panzer divisions stationed at arnhem for some R&R, & he sent lightly armed paratroops up against them! what chance did they have? The drop zones were too far away from the bridge for any realistic chance of being held. & when some troops did get to the bridge They held out far longer than they had been told that they had to & 30 corp couldnt break through to them for fear of losing all their tanks to the anti tank guns!!

Throughout the whole market garden campaign of the bridges to be captured, Arnhem was the main prize which would allow the allies to break through & cross the rhine into germany capturing the nazi factories in the Rhur, & thus ending the war a lot quicker. It wasnt to be, & a lot of good men died needlessly.

The Dieppe raid was a failure, but valuable lessons were learned & were put into practice for the D-day landings in 1944

Maharg · 09-07-2007, 03:09 AM

Dieppe was a demonstration to show the yanks that proper preperation and planing was needed before Europe could be freeded from the oppresion they were suffering.
The way I read it, as soon as the US forces arrived in England they wanted to invade the Continent.
No, no, no, said the Poms, we need to prepair more, and the German Army is really good at what they do. For example watch this.....hence Dieppe.

They used up the 'Colonials' in this case the Canadians.

All the best.
Graham.

Negative Creep · 09-07-2007, 06:18 PM

Would Dunkirk count? There is an aura which has grown around the whole event, but at the end of the day, it was still a heavy defeat and resulted in the loss of almost all heavy equipment

CharlesBronson · 09-09-2007, 05:01 PM

A nice History Channel documentry about the attack against Dieppe.

Dangerous.Missions.8of8.Attack.On.Dieppe.avi - Google Video

09-04-2007, 03:56 PM	#1
ArrowZero Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7	Dieppe Raid, worst lost of Allied Battles? I want to know if this battle that was a disaster and killed many Canadian, British and some American soldiers, if it was the worst battle that the Allied lost. I heard about it, is it true that the people who organized this Raid already knew about the German defences and they knew that was going to happen, but they wanted to test German Defence? Most of the soldiers send to Dieppe were Canadian...

09-04-2007, 04:16 PM	#2
mosquitoman Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Saffron Walden/Sheffield Posts: 2,991	I twas a "reconaissance-in-force" to find out what invading a port would be like. The biggest lost battle by the Allies IMO would be Crete simply because it would have been ideal as an air base to aid Malta hassling the Mediterranean convoys. __________________ When you realise that the light at the end of the tunnel is actually an oncoming train, you know it's time to run for your life

09-04-2007, 04:34 PM	#3
ToughOmbre Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Jersey Shore Posts: 3,499	Worst? Hardly. Singapore, Bataan, Corregidor quickly come to mind. TO __________________ *“Let's get Enterprise* and Hornet turned into the wind."**

09-04-2007, 04:43 PM	#4
mosquitoman Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Saffron Walden/Sheffield Posts: 2,991	Okay, i got it wrong, worst defeat in the West. __________________ When you realise that the light at the end of the tunnel is actually an oncoming train, you know it's time to run for your life

09-06-2007, 08:49 PM	#12
Concorde247 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: LONDON Posts: 519	Montgomery certainly wasnt perfect either, his ego kept getting in the way, you only have to look at what happened at Arnhem to see that. He chose to ignore the good intel from the dutch resistance of there being two SS panzer divisions stationed at arnhem for some R&R, & he sent lightly armed paratroops up against them! what chance did they have? The drop zones were too far away from the bridge for any realistic chance of being held. & when some troops did get to the bridge They held out far longer than they had been told that they had to & 30 corp couldnt break through to them for fear of losing all their tanks to the anti tank guns!! Throughout the whole market garden campaign of the bridges to be captured, Arnhem was the main prize which would allow the allies to break through & cross the rhine into germany capturing the nazi factories in the Rhur, & thus ending the war a lot quicker. It wasnt to be, & a lot of good men died needlessly. The Dieppe raid was a failure, but valuable lessons were learned & were put into practice for the D-day landings in 1944 __________________ Last edited by Concorde247; 09-06-2007 at 08:53 PM.

09-04-2007, 04:44 PM	#5
ArrowZero Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7	[QUOTE=mosquitoman;273236]I twas a "reconaissance-in-force" to find out what invading a port would be like. QUOTE] By "reconaissance-in-force" you mean they send soldiers to be killed just to test the defences for another invading mission

09-04-2007, 04:44 PM	#6
timshatz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa Posts: 3,799	Think Singapore was the worst of the three. Bataan and Corregidor fell after long sieges. Defense of Singapore just fell apart.

09-04-2007, 08:43 PM	#7
pbfoot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: niagara falls Posts: 5,932	Ithink you should argue the Dieppe raid on this thread http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/pol...wwii-8012.html (Greatest military blunder of WWII)

09-05-2007, 10:50 PM	#8
klidedarked Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1	well, actually i think dieppe raid should be consider as one of the biggest lost battle cause what i have heard, dieppe raid was a huge disaster on the canadian division, well, i think the allies didn´t expected what happened...

09-05-2007, 11:03 PM	#9
ArrowZero Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7	Well, actually the generals knew about the German defences at the beach, they just want to test it...but with soldiers that lost their lives. It was unfair that they send soldiers, that they didn't knew about the defences,to be killed just to see German defence. This operation was a disaster, not the worst, but it help that later they could be more organized in their invasions.

09-05-2007, 11:21 PM	#10
Medvedya Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 2,386	It was largely Mountbattens fault - he was the Chief of Combined Operations and although told by Montgomery it was a no go, he ploughed along with it anyway, using his influence with Churchill to make it happen. So - nobody, and most importantly British intelligence knew it was going to happen until it was too late to stop. The rest, is history. He was a reckless ass, which would have been fine were it his own head he was putting in harms way but it wasn't - it was nearly 3000 Canucks who paid the price for his folly. The final insult to this was that when it was over, instead of visiting the pitfully few wounded who made it back he goes instead to meet his pal Noel Coward who was filming 'In Which We Serve' a film loosely based about Mountbatten and the time he lost HMS Kelly at Crete - again through his recklessness.

09-06-2007, 04:12 PM	#11
ArrowZero Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7	So Montgomery knew it will be a disaster and Mountbattens didn't listen to him? ... He should have been more organized , because there were a lot of German defence there, and not a lot of cover for soldiers. The soldiers were killed almost as soon a they ran on the beach by the Germans machine guns and morters. This helped for the organization of D-day in 1944?

09-07-2007, 03:09 AM	#13
Maharg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 208	Dieppe was a demonstration to show the yanks that proper preperation and planing was needed before Europe could be freeded from the oppresion they were suffering. The way I read it, as soon as the US forces arrived in England they wanted to invade the Continent. No, no, no, said the Poms, we need to prepair more, and the German Army is really good at what they do. For example watch this.....hence Dieppe. They used up the 'Colonials' in this case the Canadians. All the best. Graham.

09-07-2007, 06:18 PM	#14
Negative Creep Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 840	Would Dunkirk count? There is an aura which has grown around the whole event, but at the end of the day, it was still a heavy defeat and resulted in the loss of almost all heavy equipment

09-09-2007, 05:01 PM	#15
CharlesBronson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 3,145	A nice History Channel documentry about the attack against Dieppe. Dangerous.Missions.8of8.Attack.On.Dieppe.avi - Google Video __________________ YouTube - Bronson's Videosl

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